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JJ 3-bet in the SB. River pay off?

Garland Posts: 214Subscriber
edited April 29 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Location: Graton Casino
Stakes: $2/$5 ($1000 max, match the big stack)
Effective stack: $650

Pre-flop ($7): Competent tight winning young player opens UTG to $15, 2 weak field callers, I'm in the SB with J J and 3! to $70 (I am the effective stack at $650). Only UTG calls.

Flop ($175 - 2 players): K 8 6 xx

Turn ($175 - 2 players): 4 xx

River ($175 - 2 players): 9 x $75, I ??

Some thoughts I had while playing the hand:

(a) I know people are going to say raise more pre-flop, but I don't think at my stack depth I need to raise more than I did to accomplish what I want.

(b) I was hoping to knock out the opener and go heads up against one of the field callers. Not particularly happy he called.

Do you put in a bet at the turn or river? Do you pay off as played?

Comments

  • StreetFighterStreetFighter Posts: 150Subscriber
    This is one of those spots to cbet all time.

    As played, fold, that way they can't know for sure how tight/passive you are ;-)

    But seriously, I never mind calling for a great price to get information. We can fold AQs, TT, call QQ, JJ.
  • alecspade Posts: 68Subscriber
    I briefly thought about the preflop size but then reconsidered for the same reason you gave. A larger size isn't going to give you any more or less info. I don't think a flop c-bet is called for, I mean, maybe he sometimes folds exactly QQ but being OOP sucks because if we get called we are in a real bad spot. I could get behind a river bet of exactly what he bet, but possibly a x/c line is best here. As played, I'm definitely calling, and I do think this is the best line.
  • ds2uared Posts: 263Subscriber
    Preflop sizing is fine.

    I cbet QQ here for value versus JJ, TT, 99, and half the combos of 77.

    With JJ though, there are only 3 blocked combos of KJs. KQs and AK are super possible (and much more likely to play back versus a 3!). I check this flop back with JJ all day.

    On the turn, I am betting 100% of the time with my range about $65-$70. Keeps in some smaller pairs and in a 3bet pot here there are only a few draw combos. And with your bluffs, you get to barrel a lot of rivers with some confidence as I think you can start to rule out some AK combos, and maybe some KQ combos, especially when the flush draw shows up.

    With JJ specifically, this is a great spot to pick up some value from any pairs. A lot of players will call down a bit light after the flop check.

    AP, on the river this is simply a must call. He's gonna show you some KQ, some QQ, one JJ, some 9X, and some random bluffs. You need to be right 30%. I think you got that at least.

    I never underestimate the spazz factor i.e. I am a station.

  • Latrell1515 Posts: 235Subscriber
    I actually liked the way you played this hand OOP against 2 players except the river I'm betting $65-$75 and folding if I get raised.After you check again on the turn how is someone with a K-10-KQ-KJ-K9s not betting after calling a 3 Bet raise Preflop? This is a call all day.
  • BartBart Posts: 5,828AdministratorLeadPro
    edited May 4
    This actually seems like a spot where a 25-30% cbet is in order as a volume/range/protection/value bet. Its a good spot to demonstrate how betting in certain situations is not just about getting value or bluffing. I'm sure that you have seen the "Why so much Part 2" video by @kilee .

    Are you thinking about just straight check folding to the river bet after this gets checked down on flop and turn? I feel like AK and KQ are going to start betting on the turn, quite a bit and even though this looks to be a value bet I have a hard time folding this river as played. You may run into 99 as well. Bart
  • KiLeeKiLee Posts: 252Pro
    edited May 4
    Bart said:
    This actually seems like a spot where a 25-30% cbet is in order as a volume/range/protection/value bet. Its a good spot to demonstrate how betting in certain situations is not just about getting value or bluffing. I'm sure that you have seen the "Why so much Part 2" video by @kilee .

    Are you thinking about just straight check folding to the river bet after this gets checked down on flop and turn? I feel like AK and KQ are going to start betting on the turn, quite a bit and even though this looks to be a value bet I have a hard time folding this river as played. You may run into 99 as well. Bart
    I agree. This is a good spot for 100% cbet with our entire range as the sB 3bettor. We don’t have enough hands to really split between betting and checking. And the river is an easy call I. My opinion. I can’t imagine folding here.
  • Garland Posts: 214Subscriber
    edited May 5
    Spoiler:
    Thanks for your thoughts, especially from @Bart and @kilee. You’ve given me a lot to consider. I never considered cbetting the flop, but starting to warm up to the idea. I put villain on tight range of mid-high pocket pairs and AK/KQs/AQs to call the pre-flop 3-bet. AA and KK would have 4-bet. The range eliminated any K with the turn check-back. I checked the turn, because I was attempting to get value from hands that would call the river, but not necessarily the turn in fear of the river. On river, I would have value bet ~$75 if a non-A/Q/9 river appeared. The 9 specifically stopped me from value betting as I am only targeting TT specifically.

    Result: I called and was shown QQ for the winner. I feel more comfortable with the river call as played.
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