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Vegas baby!

reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,146Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
My buddy Mike and I are going to Vegas tonight through Friday night to feed on the low-limit fishies and play some craps! We will be staying at MGM and playing there, as well as some at Aria and wherever else we feel like! Any scouting reports would be welcome. I'll post updates. :) I'm particularly excited about tomorrow night at MGM playing low limit mix games ($4/$8 and $9/$18) - otherwise it will be mostly $1/$3 and $2/$5 NL. Talk to you soon!

Comments

  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    I am missing you by a week.. I will be at aria from the 27th -30th.. Please have a trip report ready when you get home.. that is if you aren't too hung over to type.. Wink

    Wendy
  • SKOOSKOO Posts: 160Subscriber
    GL! Make Sure to check out Bill's. The have a .50/1 game that is just pure fun to play. And I believe they have the cheapest craps tables on the strip.

    Also, check out the Venetian. It's a nice poker room.

    Good luck to yah


    JJ
  • Check this place out: http://rundown.com/lv/5353-pong-stars

    Tell me how it is.

    Bart
  • reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,146Subscriber
    Well, I better give the short version. I decided to try my hand at crack - I mean PLO - and the game (and the players) showed me who was boss (it and them) and who was the little fishy (me).

    The game was $1/$3 PLO with a $200-$500 buy-in at Aria. I loved the game from the start - it really was like crack!!! First of all, everyone was limping in preflop. I mean 2 of 3 flops were 4-7 handed, sometimes limped around, sometimes with 1 raise to $15, and then called in every spot. The game played preflop more like a $3/$6 limit hold'em game than a $1/$3 NL game. I wasn't expecting that at all, and I LOVED getting involved in so many hands! It was so much less boring than NL. That leads to my next point...

    Coming from NL, every hand looks playable, especially when the whole damn table was limping almost every hand, or playing for a small raise. I bought in to their loose ways hook, line, and sinker! I was in there with hands I had no business playing, probably from any position, but especially from EP. I had myself convinced that with the table dynamic, and my "ability to dump my hand post flop if I missed" (yeah, right), I could see all the flops along with everyone else. This leads to my next point...

    Then, when I flopped something, always multi-way of course, I had no idea what to do! I'd hit TPTK with a backdoor flush draw 4-handed, and someone bet close to pot and someone else called, and then it was my turn. Or I'd be up front in a 6-handed raised pot and flop bottom set with a somewhat connected board. I never knew what to do, how to best protect my equity multi-way, whether I was supposed to call and wait for a safe turn card, or raise with my draw or set, or..... I was so in over my head it wasn't even funny. Embarassed

    Anyway, I played 25 hours of $1/$3 PLO at Aria over my 3-day trip and lost $2350. I was owned, period. While some of that was AI preflop with the best hand and getting sucked out on (maybe $800 or so), the rest was seeing WAY too many flops and getting spanked by people who knew what they were doing better than I did.

    I went into the game thinking, "Oh, I certainly fair to do well. I've been listening to Bart, I'm pretty smart, these guys can't be THAT good if they're playing at these stakes." Had it to do all over again, I would have set aside a certain amount of my BR to lose in PLO (in my case, maybe $1000 or something sensible like that), kinda like I'm taking a shot at a bigger game of NL, since I had very little experience in PLO and I wasn't sure what I would encounter.

    My NL playing for the trip went better than my PLO, up around $300. Cool

    If I take another shot at PLO someday, I will have more realistic expectations, and set a stop-loss ahead of time.

    Thanks for reading. Laugh
  • chilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    Bummer u had a bad first experience with plo.
    Here are some quick tips/pointers:
    - don't play out of position
    - don't flop bottom set (small pairs are not good in plo). What 5 card hand are you happy making?
    - play high connected suited cards
    - avoid bloating pots out of position in pots that are likely to be multi-way with hands that have a hard time improving (AAxx, KKxx) (unless you can get ~40% of your stack in pre)
    - play big pots in position
    - play big pots with nut draws, or nut made hands+redraws
    - bet for value, bluff less (blockers are great and can be valuable, but you should know the correct spots)

    These tips are intended for beginning plo players obv. Good luck! Hope you give live plo another chance.
  • reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,146Subscriber
    chilidog said

    Bummer u had a bad first experience with plo.
    Here are some quick tips/pointers:
    - don't play out of position
    - don't flop bottom set (small pairs are not good in plo). What 5 card hand are you happy making?
    - play high connected suited cards
    - avoid bloating pots out of position in pots that are likely to be multi-way with hands that have a hard time improving (AAxx, KKxx) (unless you can get ~40% of your stack in pre)
    - play big pots in position
    - play big pots with nut draws, or nut made hands+redraws
    - bet for value, bluff less (blockers are great and can be valuable, but you should know the correct spots)

    These tips are intended for beginning plo players obv. Good luck! Hope you give live plo another chance.
    Chilidog,

    I will CERTAINLY try my hand at PLO again, at my earliest opportunity! The game was super fun, WAY more action than NL. Even though I got completely pwned, I have reflected and realized I made some HUGE errors, especially preflop, playing too many hands out of position, getting involved in big pots ("OMG, the pot is huge, I have to call, lolz..."), basically all those things you said, I was doing the opposite of.

    But I still love the game! I realize that if I learn some basics, the action is way better, and the game is more fun.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    chilidog said

    Bummer u had a bad first experience with plo.
    Here are some quick tips/pointers:
    - don't play out of position
    - don't flop bottom set (small pairs are not good in plo). What 5 card hand are you happy making?
    - play high connected suited cards
    - avoid bloating pots out of position in pots that are likely to be multi-way with hands that have a hard time improving (AAxx, KKxx) (unless you can get ~40% of your stack in pre)
    - play big pots in position
    - play big pots with nut draws, or nut made hands+redraws
    - bet for value, bluff less (blockers are great and can be valuable, but you should know the correct spots)

    These tips are intended for beginning plo players obv. Good luck! Hope you give live plo another chance.
    I personally can't take the variance in PLO.. its tilting.. BUT... I agree with everything that chili says here. I can only add one thing... Almost every player you meet with bet their made hands NOT their equity in the pot. This can be quite different. In PLO you want to bet your equity and not the absolute value of your hand. This will allow you to get players off hands and limit your losses when you have a made hand but someone has a huge draw...

    Betting your equity and getting in over and over as a 60/40 or getting someone to fold out their equity is the way you win in PLO.. I wish I could handle the variance.. and maybe one day I will .. in the mean-time at least you liked the game and thought it was fun.

    Wendy
  • shmed Posts: 321Subscriber
    Glad you had a great time with PLO -- it's a great game and I wish they spread it more commonly everywhere. Lots of good points made here. One other thing is that $1-3 PLO plays pretty big relative to NLHE. I believe it's $5 to limp in (so even the BB has to complete) -- and a pot PF raise is fairly common. Probably compares more closely to the equivalent of perhaps a $500 max $5-10 NLHE with more variance.
  • chilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    One thing that becomes obv after 30 mins of live play is that people rarely fold preflop after putting money in the middle which makes for many more hands that are contested multi-way even in 3 and 4 bet pots. These bloated pots lead to more action, which makes position paramount.
  • reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,146Subscriber
    chilidog said

    One thing that becomes obv after 30 mins of live play is that people rarely fold preflop after putting money in the middle which makes for many more hands that are contested multi-way even in 3 and 4 bet pots. These bloated pots lead to more action, which makes position paramount.
    That was certainly my experience. EVERY pot was multi-way, at least 3-handed, usually 4-7 handed, as opposed to NL, where most pots are 2-4 handed to the flop. And yeah, they NEVER folded preflop if they had already limped, except a couple of old guys who would limp fold.

    I loved the bloated pots, but I need to love them in position. I kept thinking that I could never win pots like this in NL, because they never get this big! However, I didn't win too many of those in PLO either, probably because I was playing too loosely and out of position much of the time.
  • reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,146Subscriber
    shmed said

    Glad you had a great time with PLO -- it's a great game and I wish they spread it more commonly everywhere. Lots of good points made here. One other thing is that $1-3 PLO plays pretty big relative to NLHE. I believe it's $5 to limp in (so even the BB has to complete) -- and a pot PF raise is fairly common. Probably compares more closely to the equivalent of perhaps a $500 max $5-10 NLHE with more variance.
    Shmed, the $1/$3 PLO game did play HUGE. I was buying in for $300 each time (buy-in was $200-$500), so that when I got stacked, it didn't hurt quite so bad. But guys had upwards of $2000 in front of them at multiple times. The way they played it preflop was the small blind was considered like the big blind for potting, so an open raise pot was $12 ($3 +$3 + pot), then after the flop, it was red chips only - the pot was rounded to the nearest $5 increment.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    I get into Aria tonight around 9:30 ish pm.. Ping me on twitter if you are in town!

    Wendy
  • shmed Posts: 321Subscriber
    Wish I could go.... have fun!
  • How do the No Limit games in Vegas compare to LA? I always get this question and I literally do not know the answer since most of the time when I play cash in Vegas its big mix games.

    Bart
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