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2/5 bottom set against V who acted OOT

CycleV Posts: 1,096Subscriber
This hand happened a couple of days ago, so I am sadly a bit fuzzy on the details. It seemed straightfroward at the time so I didn't even record it; as I think back on it, i just want to make sure my thought process was correct.

2/5, $1200 cap. I'm a reg in the game, it's usually the only 2/5 in the room and one of only two 2/5 tables in the city. I know most of the regs, I've never seen V before. First hand, I literally don't even have my chips out of the rack yet, I'm UTG+1 or 2, pocket nines, I make it 20, 5 callers I believe. (I don't remember my suits.)

Flop ($120): AT9cc (I don't remember which one wasn't a club, I think the ace was a club.) One check to me, I don't act and the guy to my left bets $75. I don't protest or say a word, so action proceeds. It quickly folds back around to me. V has about $450 left.

Obvs I'm raising. The pot will be $270 after my call, so if I make a pot-sized raise to about 350, it would leave V with 175 left. That seems too close to correct odds for him, he'd be calling 275 to get a full double up, since I'm never folding on any turn, while he can fold any turn he whiffs. If I'm making him put in more than 60% of his stack, I'm making him stick it all in, so I simply shove. IMO It's just too awkward to screw around with anything else. He thought for a while and folded.

This seems so obvious and straightforward to me, I just want to make sure I haven't turned into an OMC with my bet sizing.


  • MattM Posts: 39Subscriber
    Do you think he has more draws or more Ax in his range on this flop? I tend to lean more towards Ax because people love to play Ax. Im gonna be targeting Ax on the flop so I'd probably raise to about 175-200 to really get him pot stuck, then ship the turn. You can get really creative here with sizings, like a minraise, then a tiny bet and a tiny bet to get all the money in too. You really are crushing his entire range so I'm not gonna just ship it to let him off the hook.
  • GarlandGarland Posts: 355Subscriber
    edited June 6
    Too bad we don't know much more about villain. I'm thinking he's probably more apt to bet Ax than a draw betting into 4 other opponents, and that is what I am targeting for. With one opponent, it's actually not so obvious I'm raising as I don't think there's much you need to protect against except for scare cards on the turn. If I opt to raise, I'm not making it huge, maybe $150 to $175. I would also consider flat calling and leading virtually any turn.

    Unfortunately, you probably get more value with a bet-bet-bet line.
  • PiggyPiggy Posts: 156Subscriber
    I will usually check (or call) back raise HUGE my entire value betting / raising range in most situations. I find that it messes with people because while it should look extremely strong, many folks level themelves into thinking you are bullying them just because they played out of turn.
  • CycleV Posts: 1,096Subscriber
    Thanks for the thoughts everyone. I figured if he had a big ace he might go with it, putting me on a draw/spew shove like Piggy said, and if he had a reasonable draw he may make a mistake as well. People in my game (usually, again he was an unknown) just don't go wild with weak aces, so if that's what he has, I doubt I'd get any more money from him anyway unless he spikes his kicker AND it doesn't complete a draw.

    I agree bet-bet lines likely get more value, esp since i would have bet bigger otf, but whenever you have a big hand and the guy to your left acts OOT, you should always let it stand and hope to trap some callers in the middle. This was just one of those spots where no one had anything.

    Mumford I know I can improve using creative bet sizes, that's good food for thought, but on this board any K, Q, J, 8 or club changes the board, pretty easy to lose him then. If I raise to 200 he's getting a good price to call with whatever, and can probably play perfectly on any turn. Whereas I'm just shoving and hoping he makes a calling mistake. If I was IP then I may have more options to work with, but mostly if he was deeper. Like if he started with 750 instead of 550 then I can raise flop and shove turn.

    As it turned out he was kind of a button clicker, lots of flop stabs to give up later, so who knows what he had.
  • Superfly Posts: 373Subscriber
    @CycleV, this was a real brain buster. I looked at it several times over lunch last week trying to find a better way to squeeze out more value, only to end up with a headache.

    On the surface it seems a waste not to call or raise small enough to keep Ax in in the floppy . But as you say, any bet small enough to do that gives V implied odds to chase draws for two streets. I think just calling the flop would be more interesting if you were in position. But being OOP neither a donk lead or check on turn seem like great options. And as you say V has tons of draws thus there are lots of scare cards out there on the turn. So think you did the only thing you could given short stacks.

  • CycleV Posts: 1,096Subscriber
    @superfly I think I know what you mean. Like I opened with, at first I thought this was a pretty basic hand, and frankly it wasn't all that much money in BB anyway, but for some reason it has stuck with me. Trying to plot out the best course of action at a table with a wide variety of stack sizes is like playing wack-a-mole, you set up against one V but a different one becomes the relevant opponent, but methinks it's an important skill to keep working on anyway.
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