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Marginal Flop Spot Facing C/R at $1/$2 NL

Choppodong Posts: 2Subscriber
edited June 8 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Live $1/$2 - $300 cap - Hollywood STL

$160 effective, as hero literally had chips in pocket to top up to $250.

Nothing significant read-wise other than UTG2 is "forgettable" but not a donating fish....not one you are just itching to get in pots with, but not at all intimidating. Has shown ability to be a little aggro, but we haven't seen anything substandard (like semi-bluffing a draw oop) shown down.....though he feels possibly capable of such play. HJ has been aggro early in session, but has gone a little silent last few orbits. Aggro here meaning opening pots and isolating a couple of limpers here and there. Again, nothing of significance shown down outside of opening pot a little "too frequently" making Hero want to find a spot or two to legitimately 3bet IP.

UTG2 opens to $16 (standard has been $12-$15....this is a bit heavy for what was getting same job done). Folds to HJ who flats. Hero sits in CO with K T and chooses to flat knowing it's the bottom of his range and would easily be folded if even in MP himself. Didn't squeeze due to stack sizes and potential SPR with dominated holding vs possible utg2 range. Felt close between flat and fold.

Flop - $50ish - T 8 7 - UTG checks, HJ checks, Hero bets $40. UTG raises to $110 total, HJ folds, Hero has about $40 left after call and feels this is fold/jam only. Calling feels pointless.



  • CycleV Posts: 1,102Subscriber
    Preflop you can't call 10% of your stack with this hand. I don't think it's even close. Squeezing would be fine if you thought utg2 would fold, but if not, just dump it and reload.

    If you give him just AK-AJ of clubs, you're only 50/50. Add in AT, all sets, all overpairs, and you are so screwed.

    Equity Win Tie
    MP2 83.72% 82.41% 1.30% TT+, 88-77, ATs, AcKc, AcQc, AcJc, ATo
    CO 16.28% 14.98% 1.30% KhTh
  • Choppodong Posts: 2Subscriber
    edited June 8
    i think the overpairs are out because they dont c/r flop. they lead given we only flatted behind. when i ran ranges after posting, i used overcard club draws, ATs because i dont think all AT combos raise pre nor c/r flops and overplay their hands, and reasonable hands with 9s in them along with 88/77. i came out 48%/51% dog and dont think i had any FE due to stack sizes and general 1/2 play when c/r'd. the c/r feels very draw heavy because made hands feel overplayed if going for a c/r and stuffing a pot with one pair. sets, i can see c/r'ing for sure. even some 2pr hands that might have felt like opening a polarized range up front.........which i dont know this guy is even capable of. part of the ranging issue is pfr checking into 2 players with a plan to c/r. he is gambling quite a bit that one of us will stab on the flop imo.

    i actually learned a lot by running his range and removing hands i thought would lead rather than c/r. lots of draws in his range, but they all have a good deal of outs and equity vs my marginal made hand.

    folding felt weak/tight, but getting all in felt high variance in a spot i dont need to beat this game.

    calling pre might be bad, but i didnt feel it was that bad at the time being i can manage a lot of spots with position in these passive games and possibly win the pot later when fit/fold players give up or allow cheap showdowns. i'm making a conscious effort to open my game in position and am bound to get involved too wide while i learn.

    i appreciate the comment/help.
  • CycleV Posts: 1,102Subscriber
    While I agree that we don't see many OP type hands c/r, I actually like the play (though I don't use it much at all). People think it's BS and sometimes they look you up pretty wide. It has to be selective, you need to have a reasonable expectation another player will bet when you check to them...anyway, I have no idea what was going on in your V's head, just saying that there's always a non-zero chance he got tricky/trappy. In 1/3 that happens plenty, as I'm sure you know.

    If you both were $400 deep then there's no problem calling IP w suited BW hands. We need the stack depth so that we can put some pressure on when we need to. All of us on this site think we can outplay our opponents...and mostly that's true! But when the SPR (stack to pot ratio) is 3:1 otf (on the flop), we're just going to have to go with TP hands most of the time. And while we can shove some draws, V should be stacking off with any TP+ himself, so as you mentioned, we have no FE. So it makes outplaying people pretty difficult. Skill edge is useless in shallow-stack poker, whereas correct starting hand ranges are almost 100% of our advantage.
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