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1/3 KK very deep in bloated 5b pot

SUYAPASUYAPA Posts: 69Subscriber
edited June 9 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Hero between 1050€ and 1100€.
Villain 1 ~2k. Guy in his 50s and TAG. The few times i saw him at showdown he had it. Seems like he is not a complete donkey. 
Villain 2 is a huge spewtard everybody wants to have at the table. People noticed that i tried to isolate him a couple of times and that i tried to play as many pots as possible with him. 

Villain 2 raises utg 30€, hero in mp 3b to 90€ with K K , villain 1 in sb coldcalls 90€, V2 allin 200€, hero makes it 400 and hopes that V1 calls. V1 calls 400.

Flop (1k€) Q 4 3
V1 checks, hero?
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Comments

  • Latrell1515 Posts: 230Subscriber
    There’s $1000 in the pot and your SPR is less than 1. You have around $600-$700 left and the can’t be scared of monsters under the bed, if he has QQ’s he 2 outed you and if for some real crazy reason V1 just called the $400 Reraise with AA’s so be it.
    by 1CycleV
  • CycleV Posts: 921Subscriber
    I haven't the foggiest notion how this could be anything except gii time.

    I agree 333BB is deep for a 1/3 game, but when the rfi is 10x and the 3! is 30x, suddenly it's not deep at all. By the time you see a flop, as Latrell pointed out the relevant factor is SPR, not BBs.
  • SUYAPASUYAPA Posts: 69Subscriber
    I think it looks way better than it actually is. If we think about his range Q high and J high flops seem like the worst we can get. Thats why i feel kinda lost here.

    If we jam its really hard to get called by worse. Bet/folding otf with this spr otf is no option. Checking back flop to give a free turn is also not a good option. I dont know but it feels like a weird spot where every option is bad and by jamming we never get called by worse by forcing worse hands to fold. When we get snapped we are crushed. Only if he somehow has AsKs we have a flip.
  • nlhood1 Posts: 8Subscriber
    I think I jam because i think we can get called by AQ and AKs, but another option couldnt we also bet small. Maybe just a live thought but i dont think many players are jamming back over a small bet with anything but a nut hand in which case we could fold. How aggressive is the player?
  • CycleV Posts: 921Subscriber
    I'm sure I'm not the only one expecting you to say you shoved, he snapped with QQ.

    Did you know that an A, Q, or J is going to come out on the flop like 57% of the time? So what was your plan, flop top set? Check it down and keep giving him free chances to make a set himself with his TT or 99 or JJ or let AK spike an ace or whatever? You know that wasn't the plan.

    Perhaps you were intimidated cuz this was the biggest pot you've ever played? Well, you played it fine preflop, you got V to stick a bunch of money in the middle, almost assuredly with a worse hand. So finish the job and try and get him to stick the rest in as well. You can bet 300 or 700, depends on what you think he'll do. And no, we're never ever folding even if we bet 300 and he comes over the top.

    If I'm right and it was the amount of money that was intimidating, I can say honestly that as you keep getting better, and keep winning money and eventually moving up to bigger games, there will always be another "biggest pot of your life" moment waiting for you. The only way to get used to them is to play lots of them. Last week I had to make the biggest hero call of my life, V shoved over $1100 on the flop. All I could tell myself was I set it up pre to get it in on the flop, I'd played it well up to that point so there was no backing down now.

    You set it up well so that you can gii otf, don't back down now.
    by 1SUYAPA
  • SUYAPASUYAPA Posts: 69Subscriber
    CycleV said:
    I'm sure I'm not the only one expecting you to say you shoved, he snapped with QQ.

    Did you know that an A, Q, or J is going to come out on the flop like 57% of the time? So what was your plan, flop top set? Check it down and keep giving him free chances to make a set himself with his TT or 99 or JJ or let AK spike an ace or whatever? You know that wasn't the plan.

    Perhaps you were intimidated cuz this was the biggest pot you've ever played? Well, you played it fine preflop, you got V to stick a bunch of money in the middle, almost assuredly with a worse hand. So finish the job and try and get him to stick the rest in as well. You can bet 300 or 700, depends on what you think he'll do. And no, we're never ever folding even if we bet 300 and he comes over the top.

    If I'm right and it was the amount of money that was intimidating, I can say honestly that as you keep getting better, and keep winning money and eventually moving up to bigger games, there will always be another "biggest pot of your life" moment waiting for you. The only way to get used to them is to play lots of them. Last week I had to make the biggest hero call of my life, V shoved over $1100 on the flop. All I could tell myself was I set it up pre to get it in on the flop, I'd played it well up to that point so there was no backing down now.

    You set it up well so that you can gii otf, don't back down now.
    Good analysis... you are totally right. It was indeed the biggest pot i have ever played. During the hand i didnt really think about the money and that it is the biggest pot i played.
    I jammed and got snapped by QQ. I thought there is no other move than closing my eyes, move allin and pray.

    Just thought its kind of an interesting spot because of the reasons i mentioned before.
  • CycleV Posts: 921Subscriber
    I joined CLP 3 years ago. I remember being so scared at $100 river bets and $600 pots. Now I'm calling over a grand w KK on a board where the ace landed on the flop. I also bluff $100 with 72o even if there's no bounty involved, just to keep people on edge when I flip the cards over. It does get easier to ignore the money, then I moved up and now I have to relearn all the same lessons.

    There's a saying that is the type you see in gyms full of grunting men lifting things, "It never gets easier, you just get better."
    by 1SUYAPA
  • SUYAPASUYAPA Posts: 69Subscriber
    CycleV said:
    I joined CLP 3 years ago. I remember being so scared at $100 river bets and $600 pots. Now I'm calling over a grand w KK on a board where the ace landed on the flop. I also bluff $100 with 72o even if there's no bounty involved, just to keep people on edge when I flip the cards over. It does get easier to ignore the money, then I moved up and now I have to relearn all the same lessons.

    There's a saying that is the type you see in gyms full of grunting men lifting things, "It never gets easier, you just get better."
    Ya i had the same but like u said u get used to it. I played a lot of 1k to 1,5k pots but never over 2k. Same with winning and losing sessions. First time i won over 1k i was really happy and feeling good... now its kinda normal and nothing special anymore.
    The day i lost with KK i had my biggest losing session losing 1,1k but didnt feel too bad about it because of having a healthy poker bankroll.

    A few weeks ago i started shotting 2/5 amd when im up and sitting with over 2k at the table and everybody else is also deep i start feeling uncomfortable after a few hours and start getting money scared and leave. Like not wanting to play a huge pot and lose my winnings. I hope i get more used to that because its criminal to leave when the table is good. Maybe an exception if you start playing more passive because of being money scared.
  • CycleV Posts: 921Subscriber
    You will get used to it, no doubt. I remember the first time I had over 2200 and suddenly I was in (what felt like) a massive pot preflop with QQ UTG, i raised, a million calls, then a btn squeeze, and I FOLDED. Smdh.

    Kowing when you are feeling uncomfortable and not playing your A game is the proper first step. No shame in picking up, none at all. Book the win, and next time you'll be comfortable enough to stick it out a bit longer.
    by 1SUYAPA
  • SUYAPASUYAPA Posts: 69Subscriber
    CycleV said:
    You will get used to it, no doubt. I remember the first time I had over 2200 and suddenly I was in (what felt like) a massive pot preflop with QQ UTG, i raised, a million calls, then a btn squeeze, and I FOLDED. Smdh.

    Kowing when you are feeling uncomfortable and not playing your A game is the proper first step. No shame in picking up, none at all. Book the win, and next time you'll be comfortable enough to stick it out a bit longer.
    haha i can totally relate to your QQ spot although luckily something similar didnt happen to me :D

    I think it is really interesting how you change over time and get used to eveything getting bigger and you also learn a lot about yourself.
    I think it is a good sign of improvement when everything gets bigger and bigger.

    GOOD CONVERSATION :)
    by 1CycleV
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