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$2/$5 TT versus all-in and call

ds2uared Posts: 369Subscriber
edited June 19 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
V1 (~$280) - a lot of limp-calling and short stack play.
V2 (~$525) - a lot of limp-calling preflop. Not afraid to bet and/or bluff but doesn't spew.

V1 utg limps. Call. V2 Mp1 calls. Call. Hero OTB raises to $40 with T T. Both villains call.

$130. Flop 9 6 5 Check, check, Hero bets $65. V1 jams for $243. V2 takes a second and calls. V2 has $240 or so left behind. Hero...

I'm not a fan of my flop sizing in retrospect. I think $75 is more appropriate. But here we are...


  • neutron212neutron212 Posts: 14Subscriber
    edited June 19
    I feel like this is a fold. V2 just calling the V1 looks strong and like a move to get a call from you to get max value for himself. I feel v2 has either flopped this flush or has A:h: x or K:h: x. If v2 had anything less he would have tried to iso by shoving himself to win the flip
    by 1CycleV
  • PokerShaman Posts: 81Subscriber
    This looks like a shrug-fold to me, not a tough spot at all. Pot is now protected, so we needn't worry about being bluffed off of an overpair. I think drawing to the T is giving money away. We just got unlucky this time, is all.
    by 1CycleV
  • GarlandGarland Posts: 355Subscriber
    You're almost certainly crushed by one of the two villains. I think this is a relatively easy fold.
  • deadinaditchdeadinaditch Posts: 226Subscriber
    edited June 19
    I don't think this is an automatic fold. You're almost certainly ahead of V2 so the only question is whether you're ever getting the odds to call V1's CR. There really aren't many hands you're beating but this is a very wet board, and I don't think you necessarily have to be getting crushed here. He might take this line with combo draws like Pairs with flush draws, maybe a gutshot and an over like Q8-A8, he did just limp call. I ran this one on Flopzilla and gave V1 a range of All AhX, Pairs 55-QQ, All Gapped hearts T7 orb. Against this range you're just a 1.6:1 dog and you're getting 3.9:1 to call. In the heat of battle I'd probably take the low variance line and fold, get a drink or two in me and I might just play some poker.
  • ds2uared Posts: 369Subscriber
    For some reason, I still can't get on board with this being "automatic". Perhaps it was some live reads or because I have played with V2 before, but I feel I sometimes see people calling all-ins with the nut or second nut flush draw, even when they are naked flush draws. That combined with the fact V1 is shipping a lot of hands makes this feel super close to me still.

  • CycleV Posts: 1,096Subscriber
    When you say, "For some reason", then go on to tell us about some live reads (THAT YOU DIDN'T MENTION IN OP), I have a feeling you folded the best hand?

    Yes, some time we're ahead of a FD and a donkey playing A9 with or without Ah. If you want to give the guys a wide enough range you can justify a call with anything. But once you start saying they could have donkey shit like J8o with Jh, well you then have to start giving them 96 and 95s and we're back to square one.

    If it was two all ins and you want to gamble gamble, it's probably not a spot w much EV in either direction. But what are you going to do when he ships the turn. Any BW card, any 9, 8, 7, or heart will be icky.

    Sometimes we fold the best hand. I simply lie about what I had, shrug, and move on.
  • ds2uared Posts: 369Subscriber
    CycleV said:
    When you say, "For some reason", then go on to tell us about some live reads (THAT YOU DIDN'T MENTION IN OP), I have a feeling you folded the best hand?
    Nope. I went with my live read. I just left that out because I wanted a less subjective opinion on the hand.

    Also, I'm not opposed to my live reads muddying the waters when it comes to forum discussions. But they are sometimes difficult to convey and get the right kind of feedback.

    "Guy shrugs before calling and it looks like he's got the A" feels flimsy when put into words, but sometimes that's what that shrug means when you're looking at that guy.
    CycleV said:
    Yes, some time we're ahead... ...card, any 9, 8, 7, or heart will be icky.
    This feedback is actually quite helpful and is most appreciated. This is good for my GTO and unknown villain adjustments. Its feedback like this that makes me not start a post with "I knew they didn't have it." Ha!

    Hero tanks then says, OK, put the rest in. V1 shows K Q. V2 shows A 5.

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