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Shove, fold or call

VernonJones Posts: 178Subscriber
2/5 game v starts hand with $385 I have him covered. I raise to $25 on button with 1010 and v who is a losing player and calls a fair amount of raises calls. Flop comes 5h5d6d and he leads out $80 into $50 pot. He has $280 behind, how would you proceed?

Comments

  • ThatOtherJeremy Posts: 314Member
    VernonJones said

    2/5 game v starts hand with $385 I have him covered. I raise to $25 on button with 1010 and v who is a losing player and calls a fair amount of raises calls. Flop comes 5h5d6d and he leads out $80 into $50 pot. He has $280 behind, how would you proceed?
    Did V call from the blinds? Is he particularly aggressive post flop? If V is more of a one-and-done type, you could make a case for calling here. Its a tricky spot. I hate raising knowing half my stack would be in the middle, and I would hate to get it all in here too. I think id probably let it go if I didn't have anything else to go off of. Just fold, since you are going to have to fold to a turn bet anyways.
  • VernonJones Posts: 178Subscriber
    Yes from big blind. No he is active but doesn't seem particularly aggressive. He is more likely to over play a hand because he is not good versus making a move with a draw in this spot.
  • ThatOtherJeremy Posts: 314Member
    I just think the size of the bet forces you into a marginal situation where you will be up against really tough turn and river decisions. Like I said, if I thought the player was the kind who could make a really polarizing play at the pot, but then would likely give it up if called, I would consider calling since I have position. You also think he is more likely to overplay than be aggressive. What hands is he overplaying that also overlays with him not playing bluffs in an agro manner? To support a call here you would have to range him to 77-99. Pretty narrow. Your own analysis of the situation is leaning you heavily towards folding. So why do I get the feeling you didn't fold?? Did anything else happen?
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,085Subscriber
    ThatOtherJeremy said

    I just think the size of the bet forces you into a marginal situation where you will be up against really tough turn and river decisions. Like I said, if I thought the player was the kind who could make a really polarizing play at the pot, but then would likely give it up if called, I would consider calling since I have position. You also think he is more likely to overplay than be aggressive. What hands is he overplaying that also overlays with him not playing bluffs in an agro manner? To support a call here you would have to range him to 77-99. Pretty narrow. Your own analysis of the situation is leaning you heavily towards folding. So why do I get the feeling you didn't fold?? Did anything else happen?
    This play is usually a pair.. I dont think v only has to have 77-99.. If he is really as loose as hero says I would also consider putting 22-44 also.. Most players just dont lead out with a 6 and certainly not with a full house. Unless you have seen this villain do this again I am inclined to call and let him bluff off his stack on turn.

    AKdd he would probably check raise.. 5x he would probably check call 65 or 55 he is also check calling.. So unless he slowplayed a pair big than 10s the you are ahead of his range. Again has hero seen villain call a raise with JJ or QQ?

    Wendy
  • ThatOtherJeremy Posts: 314Member
    Well he describes V as "losing" but I didn't get the impression he is painting V as a particularly loose player. All he really says is that V "calls a fair amount of raises"

    There's no argument that we're ahead of a substantial chunk of Vs range here. So yeah I guess its wrong for me to characterize the situation as being marginal. I just personally don't like the risk factor involved (given stack sizes) without having any more bet sizing tells specific to our V. If he is a bad, losing, player...and I specifically knew that he was prone to making these kind of overbets with any frequency, then I would definitely be ok proceeding with the hand. I wish we knew more about Vs postflop tendencies because I know it seems kinda tight-bad to fold when his line looks really bluffy. I just think with so little invested, and with a transparently bad player, I would personally be more inclined to find spots where I could be in more control, as opposed to calling off.

    Its a situation that doesn't happen all too often (150% bet on the flop as a lead out, heads up) so I think what to do here is really up to the individual and should heavily factor in player dynamics
  • DavidChan Posts: 1,208Pro
    Raise small and shove non-flush turn.
  • VernonJones Posts: 178Subscriber
    No I didn't fold. I raised a little over min raise, he shoved and i called his QQ. My first inlination was to fold but I have made some what appears to be bad folds over and over the last 5 weeks and most of them have been with overpairs where I was raised on the flop or turn. I'm not the best hand reader and when I get in tough spots I normally just fold unless I'm getting really good odds .

    By overplaying I just meant he didn't have a good feel for what was a good hand in every situation. The difference was he was calling , not betting or raising so I should of just layed down.





    ThatOtherJeremy said

    I just think the size of the bet forces you into a marginal situation where you will be up against really tough turn and river decisions. Like I said, if I thought the player was the kind who could make a really polarizing play at the pot, but then would likely give it up if called, I would consider calling since I have position. You also think he is more likely to overplay than be aggressive. What hands is he overplaying that also overlays with him not playing bluffs in an agro manner? To support a call here you would have to range him to 77-99. Pretty narrow. Your own analysis of the situation is leaning you heavily towards folding. So why do I get the feeling you didn't fold?? Did anything else happen?
  • ThatOtherJeremy Posts: 314Member
    Yeah I think everyone will have a bit of a different take but to me this is really something where I like a player read to go with it. Such senseless bets are usually bluffs, and I agree that it would be a bad fold *if* you fell into any kind of pattern of allowing yourself to be exploited via these kinds of plays. If its a really isolated incident I guess I just take the overly cautious route. If I was deeper I think I would definitely put in a raise
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