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Too thin?

JCW Posts: 591Subscriber
HG $300 cap $5/$3

Table overall seems very passive with lots of limped pots.
Effective Stacks $225

Hero just sat down but has raised 6 hands in 2 orbits. Also got caught by villain in a low % cBet. Otherwise hasn't shown any hands.

Villain: unknown. Didn't fold third pair 77 to a delayed cBet on a ATT5 board. But I suspected that he was the least passive of the bunch. Turns out I was right when later he 2 barreled a guy.

Several limpers, Hero raises to $35 from HJ with KspadeTdiamond
Villain calls on button. v2, v3 calls. Hero has position on v2&3.

Pot $145
Flop: QdiamondJclub5diamond
ck,ck Hero $55 v1 calls, fold, fold

Since table was very passive smaller cBets worked well. Lots of people playing fit or fold.

Pot: $255
Turn: Adiamond
ck/ck

Looking back I am so mixed about this check. The Ace is such a huge scare card that I just thought I would blow away so many of his hands here. With only $135 left to play I am not worried about getting it in.

River: 6diamond

Hero shoves $135

Is this too thin? He tanked and while he was tanking I was thinking about how some of the time he is going to show up with the Jdiamond and sooo many hands that I beat are just going to fold. I was thinking if I should have bet something like $50.

Any thoughts.

Comments

  • NicholasK Posts: 237Member
    Looks good to me. I like the check back on the turn because you only have a 2/3 psb behind and the diamonds and ace are so scary there. On the river a case could be made for ~$85 but I think the shove is probably really close. 25bb deep effective your plays will inevitably have more variance built in but I really like the way you played this one.
  • DavidChan Posts: 1,208Pro
    Shake head, say, "I guess it's time to go home," and then shove flop for 1.5x pot.
  • chilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    David Chan said

    Shake head, say, "I guess it's time to go home," and then shove flop for 1.5x pot.
    Lol. Just put that sentence on a macro and post in every thread. :)
  • ThatOtherJeremy Posts: 314Member
    I kind of like a big overbet on the flop if you are inclined to bet. So in this case I guess its an all in given stack sizes. You probably want to maximize your FE in this situation because even at a FoF type table dynamic, this flop is likely to have hit someone when there are 4 players in the hand. I think your sizing on the flop is somewhat turning your hand face up and not leaving you much behind to do anything with.

    For the turn, I guess its a scary card at face value, but if you're always planning to bet on the river, what hands would V be holding that he could call a value bet with? Everything got there on the turn, and isn't V also more likely to have a draw/pair+draw type of hand here? I know you block Kx combos but Kdiamond still a possibility for KJ or KQ. I think this spot is where you would want to get the rest of the money in. The reality of getting much more river value from Vs perceived range isn't all that great IMO.

    As played, Im just trying to think of what hands V could call you with here that are in his likely range as played. Maybe a strangely played 8diamond9 or Kdiamond9diamond? Definitely an interesting spot because I wouldn't ever think we are up against a boat, so really theres only a few legit hands that beat you, but still I don't see many legit value type hands V could have to call with at this point in the hand that you are ahead of.
  • JCW Posts: 591Subscriber
    Well he tanks and called. He folded when he saw my hand.

    I really didn't think he had any Kdiamond in his range. Nearly all the Kdiamond he plays makes 2 pair on turn. So it was the Jdiamond I lose to. I just was wondering if it was too thin as I think he shows up with Jdiamond a fair amount and folds a lot of his value hands. But my image was bluffy so that always helps to get the light calls.
  • floppedawheel Posts: 1,063Subscriber
    i think i'm checking the flop so that i don't get raised off my decent draw. that flop nails PF callers' ranges and i expect to get three folds a very, very small percentage of the time with that texture. that might be too passive but i just think that i'm building up a pot where i'm behind almost all of the time on the flop and i don't expect to be able to barrel my way out of trouble on the turn....

    i definitely bet the turn for value from pairs/draws.....

    somehow you got max value anyway on the river but i'm very surprised by that..... as played, i'm checking the river to induce after having given the green light to bluffs on the turn and because i just don't think i'm getting called by worse enough of the time. most players will assume that a big diamond would bet the river and, if they themselves don't have a diamond, think that the other guy must have a small diamond and that they have to bet in order to win the pot. i've caught tons of bluffs by checking weak one-card flushes OOP on the river, fairly comfortably calling down since i know they'd only bet the nut flush, or in this case an unlikely boat as well, or bluffs. and bluffs make up the vast majority of their ranges there.....
  • ThatOtherJeremy Posts: 314Member
    JCW said

    Well he tanks and called. He folded when he saw my hand.

    I really didn't think he had any Kdiamond in his range. Nearly all the Kdiamond he plays makes 2 pair on turn. So it was the Jdiamond I lose to. I just was wondering if it was too thin as I think he shows up with Jdiamond a fair amount and folds a lot of his value hands. But my image was bluffy so that always helps to get the light calls.
    Sorry I guess I forgot to answer your original question. I like the bet but not the sizing as much for the same reasons you have. As played I'm still scratching my head over the value hands that he could call with on the river that don't have you beat. Kudos if you have that kind of image that your shove got max value from a hand like AQ lol
  • Mike Posts: 371Member
    i think this is much too thin. If hes tanking about calling with the Jd you need him to call with the 8d in order for this bet to be break even. I dont think that is ever going to happen.
  • ThatOtherJeremy Posts: 314Member
    Mike said

    i think this is much too thin. If hes tanking about calling with the Jd you need him to call with the 8d in order for this bet to be break even. I dont think that is ever going to happen.
    I would normally agree with you Mike, but this hand was played in such a baffling way, V isn't repping any particular range with any consistency. I think our turn check partly plays into this...but still I just get the feeling he is overvaluing some kind of crappy hand here. I honestly did think he called with the 8diamond here...I don't know what else makes sense.
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