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5/10 Line check. Flat call turn or raise as a bluff with combo draw?

fih Posts: 34Subscriber
edited July 17 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Local 5/10$ usually the same lineup but villain in the hand is unknown to hero.

Hero (2500$) raised 10 9 from UTG1 to 30$. Folds to villain in SB (2500$) who tanks for a moment, acts like hes going to fold by sort of making forward motion to toss them in but stops and then proceeds to 3 bet to 110$. The BB flat calls and I decide to call with positon.

No real reads on villain besides this stupid Hollywood he pulled preflop. Seems like a bullshitter type by the way he talks but haven't see much of his play thus far. Others at the table had played with him and judging from their talk he didnt come across as some crusher. When he acts likes hes folding and then 3 bets I put him immediately on a very strong and narrower range of most likely a large pocket pair. With deep enough stacks and position I felt a call with my nice SC was a good play here.

Flop comes 10 8 3 and the pot is 330$.
Villain bets 150$ BB folds and I call. I felt with top pair and backdoor flush and straight draws and my immediate 5 out draw to beat the over pairs, I felt a call was fine.

Turn (630$) is the Q
Villain bets 300$
Hero raises to 1000$ leaving about 1200$ back. My thinking is they villain mostly has one pair hands here and I am more likely the have more of the sets like 88 and 33, also I have the J9 straight in my range as well where he doesn't. I felt a raise here looked pretty strong like I flatted with QQ pre and turned a set and should get a fold from one pair hands.

Villain tanks for a bit, looking a bit distressed and then jams all in for my remaining 1200ish$ I calculate it out and I'm getting more than enough pot odds to call this off vs his range of QQ, overpairs and possible 1010 but I block that. I call it off and miss and villain shows K K and wins the pot.

My main question is my turn play. Would just flatting here have been a better option, I have loads of equity here so flatting or raising seemed like a best option but going forward I would like to get a better idea of what I need to consider when making a choice to run a huge bluff or just flat call? Do I ever just sigh and fold to the jam or just call it off consider all the outs I have? I told myself before raising the turn I was prepared to go with the hand. Expecting a fold or flat call and I was going to pretty much just jam a good river if I dont make my hand. . The jam from him wasnt as expected.


  • GarlandGarland Posts: 391Subscriber
    edited July 17
    I like your play and thought process up to the turn. On turn, I’d just call and take the equity. You will get paid nicely if you hit a non straightening . I’d have to have some evidence villain can make a laydown with a big hand to try this semi-bluff. Also by making this raise now, you are forfeiting bluff opportunities when front door or A rivers.

    As played, of course you should call off with the pot odds you have. With the stack sizes as they are, I am actually not surprised by the shove as it seems like an all-in/fold from his perspective.

    It looks like your math is a little off, should be $230 on flop and $530 on turn.
  • CycleV Posts: 1,144Subscriber
    Why oh why do good poker players convince themselves that fish think like they do? You've already (and probably correctly) tagged the guy as a rec, and a slightly dumbass one at that. He ain't folding an OP, that's why he's a fish. Play the player, not an excel spreadsheet with gto ranges on it.
  • fih Posts: 34Subscriber
    Garland said:

    It looks like your math is a little off, should be $230 on flop and $530 on turn.
    The BB flatted the 3bet and folded the flop.
  • GarlandGarland Posts: 391Subscriber
    fih said:
    Garland said:

    It looks like your math is a little off, should be $230 on flop and $530 on turn.
    The BB flatted the 3bet and folded the flop.
    Sorry, missed that. Doesn’t really change anything else I said otherwise except you’re getting better odds to call on the flop and turn.
  • TravisSun Posts: 43Subscriber
    turn play comes down to: if you think he is capable of letting go AA, KK.
  • Superfly Posts: 445Subscriber
    I also prefer a call on the turn given your equity and V’s perceived strength. I think some of the range you gave yourself, like J9 or even 33, is less likely from an EP raiser. So he likely put you on fewer made hands and more draws.

    I also think you would want more than $1200 to effectively bluff into a pot of about $3000 on the river.
  • fishcake Posts: 999Subscriber
    Turn raise and size is bad committing yourself. Don’t try to get randoms off overpairs.
  • Arenzano Posts: 1,414Subscriber
    You said in your original post that you attributed his preflop action to a strong narrow range. So what changed?

    Your MPMK, T9, has decent SDV with additional equity. It’s ahead of all his bluffs and behind all his value which at the very bottom is a better Tx. He’s given you a decent price to continue without turning your hand into a bluff.
  • deadinaditchdeadinaditch Posts: 234Subscriber
    edited July 21
    I agree with everything said above. There's a time to bluff, and a time to stick with the plan. You put him on a big hand hoping to take him to value town when you out flopped him. When that didn't happen you threw that plan out the window and now decided that instead of a garrulous lag, you're opponent was now a disciplined nit who will fold an over pair to a re-raise just because it looks scary. I'm not judging you, I do this all the time, usually when it's late in a bad session, I'm frustrated and I try to force the action. The fact that you're posting this tells me that you already know this. Go with you're initial read until you have reason to change it and don't try hammer the square peg into the round hole.
  • fih Posts: 34Subscriber
    Thanks for the comments. It's been a pretty bad month so I really want to inspect my play. I agree that a call was best here. I also ran another failed bluff in this session and my morale has tanked somewhat. I probably jumped thr gun here trying to force action.
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