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Fold/Call/Raise/Shove QQ Pre-Flop 80 BB Deep

Cheating Scumbag Posts: 17Member
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Local Card Room 1-3NL $200 Max Buy-in. I have both villains covered.

Villain 1 - Typical Older Aged Woman been at the table for about an orbit, she hasn't got to showdown with any of her hands and has not shown any aggression as yet.

Villain 2 - 30ish Male traveller, already dropped 2 buy-ins through FPS. He picked some bad spots earlier on, he is thinking about what he is doing though trying to win too much too quickly.

Villain 1 $200 UTG raises to $12 gets called in a couple of spots before getting to me on the button I have QQ. Given her perceived tight raising range I call thinking raising could be turning my hand into a bluff. Villain 2 $250 in the SB raises to $35, Villain 1 agonises for some time before calling. One of the field callers call before it gets to me. $120 in the pot $23 for me to call. What should my action be?Confused

Comments

  • All in. Either that or you call and get it in on any non A/K flop.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    I really don't like you flat there with multiple players in the pot. The fact that she is tight can help you narrow her range. That said you are simply too short not to threebet call all in. In a very rare instance you could fold to the four bet..like she shows you she has AA.. but other than that.

    I think as played you just have to four bet all in .. there is not a decent amount of dead money in the pot and the tight woman didnt reraise so she probably doesnt have AA or KK .

    Wendy
  • Do you really think I need to narrow her range? I already had it at pocket 10+/AK and that's at worst and in that scenario I only have 50% equity.

    As it turns out I shoved, then Villain 2 went all-in very quickly behind me before she tank-called too. I ended up spiking a Q to defeat Villain 2's AA and Villain 1's KK.Smile After the hand he left and she rebought but didn't hand around for too long. Given how she played that hand it would be fair to give her an even nittier range than I first thought.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    So my question for you is this.. Had you raised with the QQ then mr AA would have four bet and nitty lady would have called all in you could have folded your queens no?

    With such short stacks is so much harder with QQ but if you had raise to say 35 then I think you can get away from the hand because the action would be that one had a bigger pair and the other at worst had AK thats an easy fold with QQ...

    The way you played it you are in the dark and get in a really bad spot.. Glad you hit your queen.. sometimes karma hits home! Now if your plan was to go with it no matter what then I like your play because your hand is so disguised and you will get JJ and 10s to essentially overplay their hands..

    I have come to conclusion that players just dont give any respect to preflop late position back raisers..

    Wendy
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    Cheating Scumbag said

    Do you really think I need to narrow her range? I already had it at pocket 10+/AK and that's at worst and in that scenario I only have 50% equity.

    As it turns out I shoved, then Villain 2 went all-in very quickly behind me before she tank-called too. I ended up spiking a Q to defeat Villain 2's AA and Villain 1's KK.Smile After the hand he left and she rebought but didn't hand around for too long. Given how she played that hand it would be fair to give her an even nittier range than I first thought.
    The three bet isn't just to narrow her range but also thin the field with a hand that is vulnerable in a multi-way pot. Qs are likely to be the best now but not if a four or five way pot if an A or a K hit the flop. Why give someone what is basically a free shot at an overpair, two pair etc? So three bet with the likely best hand and make others make a mistake to call.

    The other benefit is it does actually help with defining the ranges of others because you will get more information based on whether they call or four bet you. If they just call you can almost eliminate AA or KK (I would flat with AA or KK but most nits would just go all in). If they fourbet you and they would never do this with AK then you know they have AA or KK and you can fold to their fourbet since you are not getting the proper odds to set mine.

    thats what I was trying to get across.

    Wendy
  • Doug Hull Posts: 15Member
    Cheating Scumbag said

    Villain 1 agonises for some time before calling. One of the field callers call before it gets to me. $120 in the pot $23 for me to call. What should my action be?Confused
    If I am stereotyping here, I totally expect her to have KK here. You have blockers to the QQ, she raises AA. Your hand is here almost entirely for set mining purposes. Think of it as TT, it is the moral equivalent and less emotionally charged than QQ. Maybe you are lucky and she has AK, but my money is on KK and her flop play will tell you which it is.

    $23 to call. Conservatively, I want the chance to win 20X my call, so $460. There is a lot in there, $120. Now, I need only win $340 more. We have $175 back, but are virtually guaranteed to get it in if we flop a set. My conservative self would fold set mining hands here. QQ is a set mining hand against this villain.

    That said, we flop a set 1:8 times, so we need $184, we already have $120. It is safe to say you can get it all in. We might be ahead of AK here, and she will let us know.

    I call, try to flop a Queen

    or

    get to showdown for free on A or K board

    or

    Value bet all in if the flop is checked through when we have an overpair.

    or

    Fold on any A or K flop, or if bet into by on any other board unless we hit a set.
  • I wouldn't sweat this at all. Villain 2 was losing and you just should never be folding for 80bb here. V1 agonizing is lol. Just a cooler spot where you got lucky. Shove is the right move.
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