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Flopped flush vs bizarre action

PokerIsFrustrating Posts: 657Member
2/5 $200-500

This hand took place at the Borgata tournament series btw, so there were a lot of bad players in general.

V1 - (800) Older white guy. Had built up a ton of chips before I got there but is slowly bleeding it off. Seems pissed off at the world for some reason. We can't get the football game on near the table and he's complaining to the floor, complaining about hands, getting pissed off when he has to fold etc. So probably tilted a little bit.

V2 - (275) Pretty horrible player. Seems to play randomly - stacked off like $250 a few hands before with some kind of trash holding. Generally seems like he has no idea what he's doing in terms of bet sizing either.

Hero ($700) Up and down image. Lost KK to a shortstack all in with A9 and lost a bizarre hand where I rivered trips with a worse kicker but the PFR just check/called and I only lost one bet. Built my stack back up by taking down a few pots and winning a hand where I showed down AK trip K's.

Previous history with V1 - only really one hand - we were somewhat short and he min raised UTG to $10, I 3b him and he snap angrily folded and got a little snippy. Don't know if he wants to get me.

V1 Opens UTG $20
V2 calls MP1
Hero in CO Tspade8spade calls $20
Button calls $20
SB calls $20
BB calls $20

$120
Flop: Jspade3spade4spade
Blinds check, V1 bets $20, V2 raises to $60, hero?

You got that right - V1 bet $20 into $120 as the PFR and then V2 made it $60.

I have a weird situation where unfortunately if I 3b here I basically give my hand away as a flush (or maybe they think I have a set or something or like Asjx). But if I call I'm giving anyone with a higher spade a ridiculous price on their draw. V2 is seriously bad and for $250 or so on the flop I'm just getting it in. I have to raise here right?

Beyond pure raise sizing, I need to think about whether to raise enough so that V2 can reopen the betting. I didn't really think about it at the time. If I make it like $200 then if V2 ships I cannot raise back (in Borgata it has to be a full raise to reopen the betting). So if I raise too small, V1 may actually be scared that he calls, V2 ships, then I ship and now he has to fold.

Unfortunately I really want to raise and have V1 call, then get V2 to ship where I can either call and try to trap V1 for future bets or get him out and have extra money vs the fish. So should I purposely raise larger here to make sure I get V2's stack anyway and tip off to the table "accidentally" that the action can't be reopened, in case has AA/AJ with the As or something. Or maybe he makes a really bad call with like AsKc or something?

If V1 were to bet/4b here, would I have to fold? Even if he flopped pocket jacks (which I don't think would bet $20,) once there is a raise and reraise behind him he really should be afraid of a flush. I don't think he's suicidal enough to shove back AsAd when I really should have the flush. I would have to assume it was a bizarre inducer tiny bet with the nut flush I guess.

Also, if V1 had cbet a normal sizing - say $70 and then V2 basically ships or makes close to an all in bet, would I ever want to flat there with a flush to try to get value from V1? If it goes $70, $250 and I shove or click it back to $430 or w/e I look like I have the nuts.

Comments

  • Mike Posts: 371Member
    I think the only thing you can do here is 3b/fold the flop. Generally people dont fuck around on mono boards so if you get played back at after you 3b the flop i think you are dea almost 100% of the time.
  • Do you think the sizing matters at all? Is it worth trying to size so the betting isn't reopened or do you just ignore it?
  • ThatOtherJeremy Posts: 314Member
    pot is $200. V1 bet really seems like the blockish "trying-to-look-weak-to-get-credit-for-being-really-strong-when-I-was-actually-weak-all-along".

    V2 has $195 behind after raising flop...he could just easily be trying to play off the weak bet with a better draw

    I think I would 3b here with the intention of 3b/folding to V1 and calling a ship by V2, since we are effectively putting V2 AI with a 3bet here. I think $150 is a good size. If V1 really is strong after all, we will hear about it right away.

    Regarding your other questions, I think I would always be folding to a 4bet here by V1. Your hand just looks like a flush, it would be hard to think he's trying to overplay a set in this spot.

    I would also flat if the action went $70-$AI ...though were pretty sure V1 is weak here, your cold call is going to look really strong as is, if you click back you are only getting action from V1 hands that have you DD. He is going to need to be pretty strong to play against a ship and a cold call, I wouldn't risk the click back especially when our other scenario involves 3b/folding to V1 anyways
  • Thanks for the replies. I actually 3b to $150 and V1 tanked forever and folded. V2 actually folded rather quickly which really surprised me, but he was a fish so who knows.

    V1 claimed he had the As (not sure exactly what his other card was) and said that he would call a big bet if V2 couldn't raise behind (you might have predicted that from my description.)

    It would be a pretty terrible call, because he only has 7 outs and I'm not going to pay him off if the 4th spade hits, but who knows.

    Just got me thinking if there was any way I could play it trappier or w/e, but I think as played there really isn't much I can do.
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