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Very strange river check raise by tight reg.

1/2 PLO Encore, 900 eff 8 handed

V is very tight older reg in BB.

In CO I limp w AdKdQd8c. All fold to BB. Heads up

Flop Qs8d4d. Vx Hero pot (15) V call

(45) Turn 7d. Vx, H bet $30 V call

(105) Qh Vx H bets 90, V x raise pot (375) H (750 left). H??

Comments

  • GarlandGarland Posts: 315Subscriber
    edited September 10
    Something is wrong with the math or action. How can the pot be $15 on the flop if you limp in CO, BB checks and it's heads up?

    If action is folded to you in CO pre-flop, I think this is a mandatory raise.

    Flop and turn seem standard. As played, you are afraid of only 5 6 xx. Is this more likely given the lack of a turn raise? I think you have a clear at least call on the river as he can have the same Q8xx. Highly doubt tight reg overplays underboats like this. The question is if he ever has a hand like Q765? You have about $375 more, so can you go all-in for that amount and get called by worse? Maybe, but I'm probably just nit-calling this.
  • CycleV Posts: 1,027Subscriber
    I'm guessing it's a $5 BI, which sets up the psb as 15 otf.

    It's a limped pot, so statistically he has to have more boats than the one sf combo. Whether he calls them or not if we ship, idk, but he'd have to make a (seemingly huge) fold of a boat otr, and idk if he will do that. I can see shipping vs some players, but with the descripion, I can see just calling the c/r.

    Either way, I'm not considering folding. It's fucking 1/2 PLO, even seemingly good/old/tight players can c/r an underfull here.
    by 1Jonesey
  • JoneseyJonesey Posts: 109Subscriber
    When I was writing out the hand after the session, I couldn’t remember if the pot amount on the flop was $10 or $15 (some casinos around the blinds up to five dollars and count the small blind as an extra five). So I just wrote 15, but the bet on the flop was pot., Whatever that amount was.
  • JoneseyJonesey Posts: 109Subscriber
    I tanked for a while and was stunned by his check raise, I couldn't figure it out. As I worked through hands he would check raise with, I excluded any flushes (obviously), any straights (obviously), and looked at boat possibilities. 77 was the one hand that seemed likely, but even that made little sense. I think he would lead out with 77 if he thought it was good. He wouldn't check raise with an under-boat like that, even if he had 5677, I think he would just call. 44 and 88 I think I would have heard from him earlier in the hand, and if he didn't bet on the flop or turn for fear he's behind, he's certainly not check raising here. A check raise on the river from a tight solid player screams nuts only. So I came to the conclusion he had either Q8, or the straight flush (two combos of Q8 and one combo of 56dd). So then I considered whether, if I'm sure in my read, I should actually find a fold since I'm either chopping or losing. That's the question I ultimately had to answer here. I'll post my decision and the results tonight. Thanks for everyone's responses.
  • JoneseyJonesey Posts: 109Subscriber
    Garland said:


    If action is folded to you in CO pre-flop, I think this is a mandatory raise.

    Even with 3 diamonds? You may be right, but I wasn't in love with the hand because of suits and didn't want to get re-raised.
  • GarlandGarland Posts: 315Subscriber
    edited September 11
    Jonesey said:
    Garland said:


    If action is folded to you in CO pre-flop, I think this is a mandatory raise.

    Even with 3 diamonds? You may be right, but I wasn't in love with the hand because of suits and didn't want to get re-raised.
    Jonesey said:
    Garland said:


    If action is folded to you in CO pre-flop, I think this is a mandatory raise.

    Even with 3 diamonds? You may be right, but I wasn't in love with the hand because of suits and didn't want to get re-raised.
    Some NL concepts still apply in PLO. You have an above average, not perfect hand, but good enough to raise pre-flop in LP when action folds to you. Don’t shy from a raise afraid of a re-raise. It’s not like I’m advocating raising a bunch of limpers, and no one says you have to call a re-pot.
  • JoneseyJonesey Posts: 109Subscriber
    @Garland I hear you. My favorite preflop raises in PLO are when I can re-pot preflop in a configuration that puts a lot of pressure on limpers or those who called one PF raise and then I can get heads up -- because that's a raise that seriously works in the Aria and Encore 1/2 PLO games I've been playing. The $15 preflop raise rarely thins the field, it seems to just bloat the pot, so I've been reluctant to raise very often pre-flop unless I'm willing/hoping to 4! Plus unlike NLHE the concept of c-betting is completely different, c-bet bluffs are almost always a losing proposition, so the PF raise doesn't support that double-barrel purpose. Mainly I've been trying to see more flops cheaply and go from there. I'm sure it is vastly different at higher games (where I plan to play after I get enough hours under my belt at 1/2). So that's been my PF raise thinking.
  • JoneseyJonesey Posts: 109Subscriber
    RESULTS:

    As I've indicated, I couldn't put him on anything but Q8 or the straight flush, and I seriously considered a fold. But then I thought "how can I possibly fold second nuts" and called. He had the straight flush. I think a better player could have made the fold. There are just no hands that made sense that I should call with. My hand reading was good. My courage failed me.
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