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Adapting to extreme VPIP reg!

Playing a super deep game, and a regular player is VPIPing about 75%. Is floating a lot even without back doors etc. He’s limping lots pre even with big pairs but is 3/4 betting a high amount. Pre flop I feel I can counter this play fine but how far away should we be deviating away from the normal when faced with turn and river bets vs this style especially in heads up pots?

Comments

  • LatvianMissile Posts: 167Subscriber
    Usually against players like this I'll just play high card hands and hope to make top pair and just try to get it in. Stack depth also matters. Smaller stack= use starting hands with higher cards. Bigger stack we can play some connectors and hope to flop a monster, but still need to be tight. Also position is huge in this situation.

    We need to play tighter and bet for value more if V is calling wide and we can size up our bets. Sometimes the V will be holding a monster or he'll hit a gutter and that will suck. But more often than not he'll have air.

    I've done some work with equity calculators on villains that are basically willing to bluff off their whole stack and are doing it by playing every hand. If this V is willing to do that, then we should call down if we have 2nd pair or better on the river. But, it sounds here that V may be more passive post flop, so we should be cautious if he shows aggression when he usually doesn't.
  • Niklius Posts: 18Subscriber
    Play normal preflop ranges, don't cbet bluff but do bet super thin for value.
  • dubluff2 Posts: 6Subscriber
    @latvianmissile With the greatest respect as I appreciate all feedback. Did you read the post properly?
    You’ve mentioned how to adapt to him if it’s short stack poker when I had said it’s a super deep game. Maybe I should of been a little more specific but we are talking nearly 350 bigs is smallest stack on table.
    To clarify a few more things there is hardly any all ins (due to stack sizes and only one whale who is 1000BB deep). He’s a regular player and isn’t a massive losing player/could even be a winner. I’ve countered his play well pre flop it is solely his betting turn and river bets I was struggling with. Eg:-
    Hero pre flop raised 5x villain had limp called utg one field caller in CO. Flop K84csh villain x, H bet 50% pot, field caller folds. Turn 8c villain leads half pot. Hero calls river 7c. Villain bets 80% pot. Against standard opponents this to me is a fold due to his check call leading range includes a lot of 8’s flushes and even some 56’s and not so many K’s. This is an under bluffed spot against the standard player where I play but he is over bluffing so how weak should I be calling? Ps I had AK in this hand.
  • FriendlyFish Posts: 121Member
    If he’s vpiping 75% I can safely assume he’s not a winning player. The AK hand you should call the turn and look to play some rivers.

    Also whats the worst hand you’ve seen him limp call from ep? This information can greatly help define his range here
  • dubluff2 Posts: 6Subscriber
    FriendlyFish said:
    If he’s vpiping 75% I can safely assume he’s not a winning player. The AK hand you should call the turn and look to play some rivers.

    Also whats the worst hand you’ve seen him limp call from ep? This information can greatly help define his range here
    He has been limping almost every hand from 23 suited to AA to 45 off suit. (One way to stay balanced lol) he reminded me of Postle!
    The reason i think he may be a winning player or at very least not a big losing player i asked one of regs if he was a reg and they said yes. I assumed they class reg as a winning player not just a regular player. The only time I saw him raise was once someone had opened and a caller or 2 he loved to squeeze with position or open the pot from CO/BU. Unfortunately because he was more aggressive post flop especially on turns and rivers a lot of his hands didn’t get to show down. I know it’s not someone that I’m going to come across a lot but if he does play at that card room a lot and I’ll be there a lot more going forward I thought it would be good to have some sort of plan vs him in future.

  • FriendlyFish Posts: 121Member
    Alright if u wan’t me to help you out. You gotta believe everything i say.

    1. He’s definitely not a winning player
    2. The reg you asked is probably bad too
    3. You are probably not a winning player (sorry) because of how you perceive this situation.

    Here are some tips to exploit this type

    Iso raise him with big cards and medium pairs +
    Over limp with small suited ax and small pairs up to 77.

    C bet favorable flops for your ranges like K A flops small. Check back flops that favor his calling range like low cards and J high flops

    Fold to his limp re raises unless they are small and u have good implied odds

    Bet big for value every street with top pair +

    Check back some turns wifh made hands after cbeting say A10 on A57 5 runout looking to call river or bet yourself

  • dubluff2 Posts: 6Subscriber
    FriendlyFish said:
    Alright if u wan’t me to help you out. You gotta believe everything i say.

    1. He’s definitely not a winning player
    2. The reg you asked is probably bad too
    3. You are probably not a winning player (sorry) because of how you perceive this situation.

    Here are some tips to exploit this type

    Iso raise him with big cards and medium pairs +
    Over limp with small suited ax and small pairs up to 77.

    C bet favorable flops for your ranges like K A flops small. Check back flops that favor his calling range like low cards and J high flops

    Fold to his limp re raises unless they are small and u have good implied odds

    Bet big for value every street with top pair +

    Check back some turns wifh made hands after cbeting say A10 on A57 5 runout looking to call river or bet yourself

    So I was extremely apprehensive to post on a forum because I’ve always felt this was the going to be the case and you have seemed to have proved my point.
    1) I don’t actually know how big a loser he is if he is a loser or even if this is the way he always plays or whether he was a reg on tilt etc.
    2) the player I asked is an upswing poker subscriber who is the most well known reg down there and the most consistent winner albeit a bit of a Nit reg but in the games he plays it works for him. And he supports his wife and 3 kids off poker.
    3) Youve just assumed something about me without even asking and not to mention it’s a very poorly worded criticism. I think it’s Tom dwan who said in an interview I recently watched ‘if I notice someone different to what I’m used to I feel the need to figure out if they are doing something better than me and if not what I can do to punish that play the most’
    So again let me counter what you’ve said
    1) I’ve not asked you to comment on if he’s a winning player or not I’ve only said what info I have from people who are more informed about him than me in the room. When I first started because of his limping I saw him as the biggest spot on table to make money but after 7 hours and him never stacking off and winning lots of money with no showdown I started to second guess my beliefs which is when I asked someone else who confirmed he is a reg!
    2) I’ve said a few times now I’m fine with pre flop changes I need to make
    3) I’ve asked a question and even given a hand as supporting evidence of where I was kind of in between two minds and you’ve ignored that completely and just dribbled on about other stuff.
    Thank you for confirming my beliefs on how ridiculous people in forums can be! I assumed anyone who wanted to only get better at poker on CLP would be better than those free forums but apparently not!
    No need to reply I won’t be posting again.

  • kaboojiekaboojie Posts: 465Subscriber
    Is that you Raging owl? Lol

    I’m not Bart or Tuch, but it I’ll try answering.

    If he’s vpiping 75% pre and you’re deep stacked, then you need to attack him with a linear range. You said you have this part covered, so I won’t dwell

    If he’s vpiping this much pre and you still think he may be a winning player, then I would have to surmise he plays very well post flop. The first thing I would do is try to play hands against him ip. If you’re in a casino, Do a seat change to get to his left. If it’s a home game and you’re not sure if that will be frowned upon, then just try to keep the pots smaller oop and play bigger ip.

    Beyond that, try to construct your Cbet, barrel and float ranges on hands with additional bd equity. This will especially helpful playing this deep.
  • dubluff2 Posts: 6Subscriber
    kaboojie said:
    Is that you Raging owl? Lol

    I’m not Bart or Tuch, but it I’ll try answering.

    If he’s vpiping 75% pre and you’re deep stacked, then you need to attack him with a linear range. You said you have this part covered, so I won’t dwell

    If he’s vpiping this much pre and you still think he may be a winning player, then I would have to surmise he plays very well post flop. The first thing I would do is try to play hands against him ip. If you’re in a casino, Do a seat change to get to his left. If it’s a home game and you’re not sure if that will be frowned upon, then just try to keep the pots smaller oop and play bigger ip.

    Beyond that, try to construct your Cbet, barrel and float ranges on hands with additional bd equity. This will especially helpful playing this deep.
    Luckily I already had position against him which I agree is key to playing against him. I’ve been really working on my cbet bluff ranges using the cbet matrix which I feel helped a lot and luckily didn’t put me in too many spots where I was in trouble. So maybe as you say constructing a good range with back doors was key to this. I may have underestimated how much this was helping vs him.
    What’s your opinion on when he bets into me when the board has run out poorly but I am at the top of my cbet range on the flop and still have top pair top kicker? Would you suggest cry calling more often than not or folding as I would with everyone else at the table? (Based upon no one else at table is bluffing anywhere near enough for me to call in this spot and get the right price)

    Ps thanks for the comment! Very sound advice even if you are no Bart or tuch
  • FriendlyFish Posts: 121Member
    Yo sorry my words were not friendly I had a bad day at work yesterday. Sincerely sorry
  • kaboojiekaboojie Posts: 465Subscriber
    Unfortunately, I think there are too many variables to consider to be able to give you a direct answer. If you're cbetting/checking frequencies are in line in that are not cbetting or checking too much, then you should be calling with your better hands, provided the board run out doesn't completely smash V's calling or raising range.

    If you notice V has a tendency to come out with big bets whenever the board favours his range, you are going to have to call down a little lighter in order to not be exploited. Additionally, if you notice this tendency, you should look to increase your c/r range with some strong draws and a few nutted type combos.

    Of course, this is against a V that you have history with and vice versa. Against most recs, just bet your strong hands for value because most recs overcall and fold to raises because most recs under bluff. (I stole the last sentence from one of Bart's Instagram posts. I hope he doesn't mind)
  • dubluff2 Posts: 6Subscriber
    @kaboojie yeah I like the sound of that. My plan during the game was to just call slightly wider vs him on rivers and to use more of a strategy to under rep hands on turn and call more rivers than against the normal players in the game rather than keep just betting for value therefore allowing him to follow through on his floats as I don’t believe he was always just floating with back doors and was over floating these spots therefore has to overbluff to try to win. I just think looking back I was second guessing that plan due to him having it in the key hand we played together. Maybe I was being too results orientated and not trusting the theory over the outcome!
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