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$1/2 Slow play flop, river trips. Lost value?

crux Posts: 119Subscriber
Effective stack ~$350
I have played with V in the BB a fair amount. Pretty typical MAWG, competent but I'd say pretty straightforward.

Hero in CO $440
J T

3 EP limps, Hero $12
SB, BB and UTG call

Flop ($52)
J 7 9 :r:
chk around
After checking I remembered something @Garland said in a thread a while back, "If you are thinking about slow playing, just bet small." I think I should have bet here with my pair + gutshot, even if it was the same $12.

Turn ($52)
A
chk around

River ($52)
J
SB $30, BB call, UTF fold, H??

I'm sure I am good here, but can I extract any more value from the hand that I lost by checking the first two streets?
Min-click it back?

Comments

  • LatvianMissile Posts: 289Subscriber
    Preflop: Don't raise JTo. Fold it. If you're going to play it overlimp... but I think I'd only play it as an overlimp otb.

    Flop: I think you need to bet. If you're going to check TP on the flop, this is the best hand to do it with. But, I wouldn't recommend doing that multiway. There are a bunch of hands that can call, and I wouldn't mind just taking down the pot on the flop. Heads up this makes a good check.

    River: I would say that you probably could get some dumb players to call to a minraise with a ace, but I probably just call as most weak aces may fold out.
  • Steveo76 Posts: 159Subscriber
    I agree with @LatvianMissile that J10o is a fold pre-flop here. What were you hoping to accomplish when you raised @crux?

    I think the focus should be on the pre-flop decision rather than the possible missed value on the end. Does the sum of 3 limpers ahead of you plus your holding add up to a profitable situation? If not, wait for another!




  • GarlandGarland Posts: 515Subscriber
    edited January 16
    My quote has to do with lockdown boards such as being on button in a multi-way pot with 77 on 766 flush draw board, not your situation.

    JTo is worth a limp in your scenario, not necessarily a fold pre. As played bet the flop around $25 for value/protection.

    River your hand is underrepped so it is worth a raise for value against Ax maybe just above click to $75.
  • crux Posts: 119Subscriber
    Garland said:
    My quote has to do with lockdown boards such as being on button in a multi-way pot with 77 on 766 flush draw board, not your situation.
    I'm still going to repeat it to myself from time to time.
    In this instance I think it applied since the table was pretty passive, but people would also donk if they got a good piece of the flop. I think I safely had the best hand on the flop 9/10 times at that table.

    --
    Steveo76 said:
    I agree with @LatvianMissile that J10o is a fold pre-flop here. What were you hoping to accomplish when you raised @crux?
    I'm going to disagree pretty strongly that JTo is a fold from cutoff pre here at 200+BB deep.
    I was trying to fold out other marginal hands and give myself a chance to play my position better post flop.
    There had been no limp-3! at the table and it was generally just a passive table. I'd rather raise here and try to get head's up or lesser-multiway with the EP players than have more limpers from the BTN and blinds, or get squeezed off by one of those spots, by limping in.
    BTN was OMC type and looked disinterested in his hand, so I was 99% sure I was going to have ultimate position. V in SB I had only about an hour in this session with, so no real read on him except he seemed a bit loose and ABC. V in BB I have a fair amount of hours with, and he's definitely capable of 3! or squeezing his BB, but is also pretty transparent. If I was 3!, I fold as nobody on my left is 3! bluffing.


    Spoiler:

    I thought about it for maybe 15sec and bet $100.
    SB snap folded. BB tanked for a minute or so and also folded.

    I think clicking back something like $60-75 would have been a better bet and more likely to get a call from AX.

    And the flop definitely should have been a small bet with top pair and gutshot. Probably somewhere around $15-20 keeps a lot of the other straight draws and single overs in.
  • kaboojiekaboojie Posts: 518Subscriber
    In a tougher game, I think this should be folded pre. If the game is passive, I think limping is fine in CO. I'm not a fan of the raise.

    AP - With the pf initiative, betting small (20ish) seems ok (as mentioned for value/protection). Being 4 ways with a marginal TP hand, I dont mind a check either. FWIW, I certainly would not call a check here a slow play. Your hand is too marginal to fall into that category.

    AP - I like the turn check.

    OTR - I would raise a bit more than a click back. I'd make it 75. I dont think you can raise too big here because, ironically, your xx raise river line may look like a slow play.

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