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What do you do if nothing goes

NitBetNitBet Posts: 40Member
edited January 18 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Hi folks,

last night I had a terrible session first playing 2/1, then 5/2, then back to 2/1 @Grand Casino Liechtenstein.
For those who don't know it yet, this Casino will become a hot spot for Poker very soon, probably even more interesting than the Kings Casino in Rozvadov. EPT, WPT, Triton and more is negotiated about.

However, to give you a taste what was going down last night... the first hand I opened/played was (blinds 2/1)

9♥-8♥ from the BB vs the the struddle (loose asian fish) to 24 which he called

Flop

Q♥-10♥-5♣

cbet-raise-reraise-call.

Turn

6♦

shove, call...

The hand of his choice was Q♦-5♠

Kept going on and on and without any doubt I had one or two spots I just played bad while still having an edge over my opponents at both stakes...

The thing is... I dropped like 1k9 last night and I consider this as a serious loss for those 150bbs capped tables.
What do you do when you face such a loosing session and how do you approach it?
What is your perspective to cap losses, how many buy-ins do you have on you when you go play?
Like to hear your opinions.


Cheers

Gee


PS:
After revision with a very close friend of mine, a mid/high-stakes regular and probably better player than me we came to the conclusion that the hand was played suboptimal. Suited connectors with such shallow effective stacks are no optimal candidate to open vs. a struddle. Further hero should have just shoved OTF as we can't generate any additional fold-equity.

Comments

  • HurtLocker Posts: 25Subscriber
    Hi Gee. Generally if you are losing you should try to cut your sessions short...chances are your image will be bad, which may limit some of the tools you can use (I.e., bluffing). Conversely, extend the sessions if you’re winning and have a good image. Not sure what the cap is within the games your playing but I typically try to bring three full buy-ins worth. I will top off my stack as needed to ensure I have the maximum allowed at the table. If you get close to exhausting all three buy-ins it’s probably a good sign to cash out and come back another day.

    Also, don’t get caught up on the results of an individual session. Keep your eye on the bigger picture and performance across many hours within a month, year, etc. Fix the mistakes you’re making in your game and longterm the money will work itself out.
  • NitBetNitBet Posts: 40Member
    edited January 18
    @HurtLocker
    Do I know you, you look familiar to me?
    Do you play in the Philippines?

    Yes, usually I keep it just like you say - 3 buy-ins or come back another day and yes, I have the big picture in mind being only interested in my long-term results. My graph is positive over all.

    It just hurts so much if you keep loosing to all the (being aware of the image that it produces) jerks out there and try to grind a roll out of them in low-stakes. I could easily take 'private money' and play 10/5 or higher but where is the fun in it?

    Another example of last night.

    MP opens (loosing aggro-fish with migration background - he hates me like the plague) on 2/1 to $7, (weak-semi-tight fish) BU 3bet to $20 with $50 behind and hero in the BB looks at A♠-Q♥ and 4bets to 105 to isolate.
    MP tank-calls now with roughly 85 behind as does BU. Pot 275

    Flop:

    8♥-6♦-4♣

    Auto-shove and I don't pair my cards on the turn or river.
    MP shows A♦-8♦

    Max bad, hero pukes on the table and hates life.

    Bad beat stories...

    How about the others, how do you handle sessions like this?


  • irwinbetirwinbet Posts: 408Subscriber
    I agree with what @HurtLocker said. I only get to play about once a week so I never want to cut my sessions short as I feel like I have to get my hours in. So if cutting the session short is not an appealing option, an alternative is to change tables or games. I've had sessions that started terrible, changed tables, and then was able to turn it around. Sometimes the cards just aren't going to go your way at the bad table & your image is bad too since you've been losing. I view a table change as simply starting over.
    If a table or game change isn't an option, try taking a break. Do something that gets your mind off poker. For me I usually head to the sports book to watch a game for a little while but it can be anything, so long as it gets your mind off the bad poker you've been experiencing. Once you feel relaxed you can return to the table. If things continue to go bad then it's probably best to call it a night.
  • crux Posts: 106Subscriber
    I think the toughest thing about losing sessions and longer downswings is maintaining the ability to analyze your play objectively. Having a good base of poker buddies, and these online resources, to bounce hands off of is a good way to help with that. Fact is, you're going to get beat sometimes even when you are playing, "right." But, a lot of times that can lead to making adjustments that you think are going to help in the short term that are actually playing, "wrong," and just lead to more losing.

    I had an 8 week downswing last year that destroyed my bankroll and a bit of my spirit. I felt like I was playing well, but just kept running into it from everyone. What I found helped was to play short sessions, not re-buy as much or at all on some days, take lots of hand notes and take a look at the sessions well after they were played to take the emotional piece out.
    In session, as has been mentioned, change seats and tables; take breaks; don't drink alcohol (much); and don't use the ATM.
  • HurtLocker Posts: 25Subscriber
    @NitBet Never been to the phillipines but I hear the poker there is juicy! Try reading Jared Tendler’s the Mental Game of Poker. There is a chapter on the seven types of tilt that should give you some perspective on your questions.
  • Superfly Posts: 558Subscriber
    edited January 18
    NitBet, I don’t handle downswings that well either, but I do two things that I have found to be effective:

    1) Drop down in stakes until you get your groove back

    2) spend more time studying than playing. If you have not already done so, spending a lot of time with Ki Lee’s Fast Track modules is a great way to improve your skills and gain confidence. I mean watch and REWATCH. There is so in there to absorb you can’t do it justice with a single pass through

    At the risk of seeming results oriented, I’d like to comment on the example hand in your original post because I have a different take on it and would like to see what others think. First, I think opening 98s from BB vs straddle is perfectly fine and standard, esp vs a “fish.”

    On the flop you have a FD and gutshot. You don’t give effective stacks and bet sizing here (which is critical for us to understand), but in general I think it would be better to just call Vs raise rather than reraise. Other than the FD - which you block - this is a very dry board. When V raises the PFR, sets are definitely something to consider. As we see, 2Ps are even in there, albeit unexpected. Against those hands you have only 40% equity. Since you have no showdown value if you miss, i prefer a call in this spot to try and realize you’re equity unless you’re very confident the rr will generate tons of fold equity. Thoughts?

    On the other example hand, AQo OOP is generally not a cold 4b vs an open and 3bet. As reference, I am attaching Ki Lee’s Responding To 3Bets chart, which appears in his Fast Track videos. In this case you’re not the original opener with money in the pot, so the OOP 4bet is even more suspect. Again you don’t provide effective stacks or bet sizing which makes analysis difficult, but shoving AQo on low coordinated multi-way flop also seems suboptimal. You’re likely to get called by overpairs, esp the BTN who has only $50 left. I assume your frustration with your run bad influenced this decision. I can relate. Hang in there!
  • NitBetNitBet Posts: 40Member
    edited January 18
    Hi guys,

    I'm overwhelmed by the participation - appreciate it, really thanks a lot!
    Superfly said:


    1) Drop down in stakes until you get your groove back - DID LATER ON, CHECK.

    2) spend more time studying than playing - CONSTANTLY DO, CHECK.
    Ki Lee’s Fast Track modules - WILL CHECK OUT.
    At the risk of seeming results oriented - NEVER, I SEE THE BIG PICTURE.
    Opening 98s from BB vs straddle is perfectly fine and standard, esp vs a “fish.” - ARGUABLE.

    To be more precise in the 9-8hh hand...

    Effective stacks are 150bbs, villain has me covered and made some doubtable hands early in the session.
    At the time the hand was played the table was still short-handed (4 players), we have been just playing 5 orbits or so and all players had 150bbs in front of them except one (100bbs) who obviously wasn't involved in the hand.

    Game in question once again was a struddled $2/$1.

    My open was $24 which is game-theoretical quite 'okayisch', struddle calls, pot $48

    OTF I cbet $30, villain raises to $65, hero RR to $135, villain calls.
    After giving it a second thought here is the mistake. I don't generate any fold-equity with this min-click and should have just shoved with the fd-gutter with only $250 behind. My first thought at the table was, that I want to eliminate the possibility that villain is bluffing me as has been very bluff-heavy in general.

    Superfly said:

    Other than the FD - which you block - this is a very dry board. When V raises the PFR, sets are definitely something to consider. As we see, 2Ps are even in there, albeit unexpected.
    'Donn'u but I don't see this as a 'dry board' with a flush- and a straight-draw.
    Also we can't go far from being 'out-setted' all the time and even though I am not going to fold here with this hand.
    The dead money is already compelling a call, raise or shove etc. If we go far from clean ranges there are 3x Q-10, 3x 5-5 and very unlikely 3x Q-Q out there, the rest are weak made hands, draws or bluffs with no or almost no equity.
    This fish is the kind who pulls this move with TP no kicker as well if he smells a draw. The latter hand I am probably bringing to a fold with the min-click and was what I hand in mind even though it's just a fraction of his continuing range.
    Superfly said:

    AQo OOP is generally not a cold 4b vs an open and 3bet.
    Totally agree here but I know both of the players very well, played many hours with them and once again I am doing well with A-Qo in this spot vs. range(s). My poker-buddy 'lazy-H' probably proposed correctly to just min-raise, let initial raiser call, BU shove and the re-shove so that the initial PFR has a tougher decision/call.

    BU: $70 total
    CO: ~$200
    Hero: covers
  • NitBetNitBet Posts: 40Member
    edited January 18
    HurtLocker said:
    @NitBet Never been to the phillipines but I hear the poker there is juicy! Try reading Jared Tendler’s the Mental Game of Poker. There is a chapter on the seven types of tilt that should give you some perspective on your questions.
    Yes, indeed the games in the Philippines are very juicy.
    I just say 'no look all-in', a move some crazy Koreans sometimes pull.
    All in with Q - 5 on A - 8 - 5 is called ' a Korean draw'... :-)

    Has some tough locals in Manila but the really good players are usually from Europe, sometimes the US.
    Mostly low- and mid-stakes with blinds of $4/$2 or $2/$1 but usually pretty deep the later the evening. (up to 500bbs)
    The rake is terrible high even compared to Europe which is the reason the poker-population down there plays small blinds with deep stacks to cap the rake. All the big casinos you can't really recommend to play and the preferred places to join the tables are Resorts World and the Metro Card Club. Both unfortunately with hand-dealing as opposed to the big casinos.


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