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Is this a bad fold?

Steveo76 Posts: 159Subscriber
Here's a hand from The Empire Casino in Leicester Square, London. £1/£2, 7 handed.

CO Villain (£410) opens to £10, Button (£170) calls. Hero (£600) 3! to £50 in SB with JdJh. CO 4! to £135. Button folds.

Hero folds.

I only have 1 previous session with Villain. He didn't play a lot of hands and seemed solid. He's only been at this table about 30 mins and probably perceives Hero as a solid TAG.

I've recently moved up in stakes and I feel almost hyper-aware of a lot more mistakes. Is this typical when you move up and did I mess up in this hand?

I appreciate all feedback as always!


  • Arenzano Posts: 1,464Subscriber
    I wouldn’t put JJ in a 3b/fold range vs a CO open, unless this player was only opening the very top of their range. Which, in that case, I wouldn’t 3b.
  • HurtLocker Posts: 25Subscriber
    I don’t think you see many 4! bluffs into two players at this level so villain’s range skews towards hands that dominate you. At best you’d be flipping against AQ, AK and you’re also OOP. Good fold.
  • Daddyslap Posts: 110Subscriber
    Agreed with @HurtLocker - as much as we want to go with this, its a great fold.

    For all of my hours of low limit cash, I've 4! lighter exactly 3 times - Twice with JJ and once with AQo. Both times with JJ the Villain open folded QQ, and the 3rd time the Villain flipped over KK and tanked for 2 minutes before folding.

    The reality is in these lower stakes games that 4! bluffs are virtually non-existent - Without deep history, you did the right thing.
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,548Subscriber
    Players don't 4b light in low stakes live. Period. If you want to think about it then realize he 4b just enough to give you room to shove thinking you had FE and small enough to call.

    Also consider his reaction and speed of decision. Like if he didn't react to your 3b then immediately went for chips, thought about it then 4b this shows to me he is strong. While he did take time to think he instantly grabbed his chips. If he had a negative reaction to your 3b you might consider continuing. Like a slump, sigh, eye roll, then thought then grabbed chips to 4b. Another one I see a lot of players automatically and instantly 4b'ing without thinking. That signals me he has a strong hand and just spazzed out in joy. Even decent players do this.

    One time this tight guy raised, I took my time to look at my hand count out chips, look at his stack, and 3b him. I don't 3b often at my 2/5 games, he INSTA min 4b me before my chips hit the felt. Ok buddy your AA is good.

    But players just don't 4b bluff.

    If they are nitty players and play predictable you can call here with relative position. Don't know if this is GTO or not vs a nit.
  • cdevine Posts: 3Member
    I don't mind the fold at all. Like others have said, you never really see 4 bets at this level. At best you are up against AK. I love the Empire casino btw, will be back in March!
  • hustlin Posts: 362Subscriber
    Yah I dont mind fold tooo... but its very very close given its CO vs SB , so ranges are a little looser.
    I think sometimes getting in here 200bb's MAY BE ok. just sometimes.
    I think QQ+ your pretty forced to get it in here in a standard game.
  • Steveo76 Posts: 159Subscriber
    Thanks for the comments guys.

    So most posters think it was a good fold. At the time I felt that he could be making this play with AK. So I was close to calling and seeing how it plays out on the flop. I have 4! AK myself in spots like this and I thought he was capable. But I agree that most of the time (in the £1/£2 player pool) this is AA-QQ and that's what I defaulted to.
  • LatvianMissile Posts: 290Subscriber
    I would also say fold. I prefer not to get in flip spots preflop, where at best you're flipping with AK and and at worst you're against a higher pair.
  • Steveo76 Posts: 159Subscriber
    @cdevine - Shoot me a message when you are heading to the Empire and let's drink a beer!

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