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Am I thinking suboptimally?

Steveo76 Posts: 159Subscriber
So I'm coming off a session where I just feel like I played horribly. Here's one of the hands that I think I butchered. I did win the pot actually but I'm not proud of it.

Empire Casino, £1/£2, 7 handed.

CO (£160 limps), Hero (£550) limps with 4c4s on the Button, SB (thinking player, £250) raises to £10. CO calls, Hero calls.

Flop: 6c 5h 3d (£32)

SB bets £20, CO folds, Hero raises to £75. SB folds.

Is this supposed to be a call or is there any merit at all in what I did? The reason I raised was to rep better than an overpair and set up a near pot sized shove on the turn. If he has overcards then I want to charge him to draw.

This has the feel of a confessional tonight guys, but sometimes you've just got to get it out!



  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,550Subscriber
    Raise is too big. he is never folding some TP hand to a single raise but he is folding overpairs. Basically this is taken from ToP. Bluff raise the minimum amount to get the job done. What this means is that there is a point where the larger the raise doesn't significantly increase the fold %. In some spots an overbet is required but even those have that same pattern.

    Considering this is a 3 way pot our preflop raiser will very likely CB very often because he thinks he has too. So your raise is fine IMO. Just make it smaller. You very likely have 10 clean outs and 8 later bluff outs later in the hand if he can fold an overpair.

    If he bet into 3 people I would lean on a call if the rest fold. And if 1 person call I'd way my hand vs the size of the bet. The caller could have your outs.

  • hustlin Posts: 362Subscriber
    Hmmm as played interesting line with 44.
    My default would be to call here, I’m just seeing is their merit to raising here. It’s tough I’m not sure......

    I guess it depends on the amount of variance u want. By raising here your increasing your variance. Say for ex if villain over shoves here, your pretty priced in here for a call on a OESD w set outs .
    However raising here does seem strong, your repping 2 pair , straights and sets , which is quite credible.

    I don’t mind the play , I still prefer flat and see the turn is position. I can see mixing this play in once in a while being a good idea.
  • Daddyslap Posts: 110Subscriber
    Definitely need to revisit preflop charts - 44 is a clear open here when its limped to us on the button. $10-$15ish. We then get information on the SB's range when they either fold, flat, or 3!. and can then reevaluate based upon the size of the 3! and the action of the BB and CO since we'll be in position.

    As played, I'm not immediately alarmed by your raise or the sizing - We have massive equity here, but it isn't yet realized. We also don't know exactly where we are as the SB has an uncapped range - This could be an overpair that we want a fold from without having to wait for the river. This could also be some sort of AJos or 89s that is far behind but drawing, so calling the flop bet still puts us in a difficult spot on the turn barring a 2 coming off.

    If anything, I'd make it like $90-$105.
  • joshofalltrades Posts: 134Subscriber
    I like it. You have a massive range advantage and a thinking player will realize that and will really be in a tough spot.
  • Steveo76 Posts: 159Subscriber
    Thanks for the responses fellas.

    So it doesn't seem that I did anything horrible here then. It's interesting how different posters like different plays here.

    @Fuzzypup likes a smaller raise. @Daddyslap prefers a bigger raise and @hustlin favours a flat!

    As played, as @joshofalltrades alludes to, I decided to press home my range advantage here versus what I considered to be a player capable of recognising it and capable of laying down an overpair. I wanted to make sure I bet an amout big enough to get it done though. I'm not sure going less than £75 necessarily accomplishes this @Fuzzypup.

    Interesting point @Daddyslap about taking 44 for a raise on the button pre-flop after CO limps. Ordinarily I would have done so versus deeper stacked opponents. I elected to limp behind here because the CO was only 80bb deep. I'm not sure what is best actually.

    I've recently got hold of The Elements of Poker by Tommy Angelo after it was recommended by @Chase. I've learnt that I can save a lot of energy and sanity by understanding that the closest decisions are the ones that matter the least. That some answers are unknowable. It's okay to let some decisions reside in the gray area. As long as you can recognise your own gray area shrinking as you gain experience, then you have a stick by which to measure your progress. This is a great read.

    by 1CycleV
  • CycleV Posts: 1,195Subscriber
    For certain people, Tommy Angelo is the nuts. (I'm one of those people. He can probably come off as flaky but I really groove on his style.)

    FWIW I like both the flop bet and sizing. We definietly want him to fold a better hand.
  • StreetFighterStreetFighter Posts: 184Subscriber
    Preflop you can raise over the limp.

    As played, you can take advantage of having the nut advantage on this board and set up multiple barrels with good equity. Since you're trying to tell a story here, use what sizing you think they will believe and fire pretty much every turn.
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