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Turn play with pair and straight flush draw

Empire Casino, London, 8 handed, £1/£2

Hero (£329) in BB with Jd10d.

UTG (£550) limps, UTG1 (£980) raises to £10. Hero calls. UTG calls.

UTG is a straightforward loose passive player. UTG1 is the main Villain and is a careful thinking player who hero has had the better off in our two sessions playing together. Hero's image today is TAG, winning a number of pots with check raises in the last hour without showing down.

Flop: Ac 10c Qd (£31)

Check, Check, UTG1 £20, Call, Call.

Turn: 9d (£91)

Check, Check, UTG1 £50. HERO???

Thanks in advance fellas!


  • LatvianMissile Posts: 268Subscriber
    I like a 3! pre flop with JTs with a limper behind. On the flop, I think I'd fold. We have another player behind and only a gutshot and a backdoor flush draw. I think we should defend tighter in this spot with another player that has yet to act (since UTG naturally checked to the PFR).

    Turn I think it close between a raise and a call. We won't get paid if a K comes out, but I with the stack sizes I don't think a bluff jam is profitable enough. I think I'd just take my equity and hope the river is an 8 or a diamond so we can still get paid.
  • Steveo76 Posts: 159Subscriber
    Thanks for feedback @LatvianMissile.

    Anyone else?

    • Thoughts on a 3! pre-flop?
    • Is the flop a fold or perhaps a c/r?
    • Does anyone like a c/r jam on the turn?

    Would really appreciate some help with this one.

    Thanks guys.
  • JredA Posts: 90Subscriber
    If the raiser is a solid player not opening too wide, then I prefer the flat. Im ok letting the loose passive in as he will most likely play straight up and not give us many problems.

    I agree w/ LatMissle on the flop fold.

    It's a pretty connected board that favors his range and he bet quite large into 2 players. If we give villain a lot of strong broadway combo's here we are crushed equity wise. This is one of those flops that makes our hand look good, when in reality we are hoping for 3 outs to feel good...a non-club K on the turn. So many times we are going to be x/f to a turn bet.

    As played, we pick up a little equity, but not enough IMO to put more money into the pot.
  • CycleV Posts: 1,177Subscriber
    pre is fine. If we raise every JTs in this spot we are way too wide; if we never raise light then we are too predictible.

    Flop I'd just fold. We didn't get nearly enough to continue.

    Turn I think is just a call. V has shown enough strength that there's no guarantee he'll fold, but if our bd diamonds come in, we played it like a club draw so we should get paid very nicely if we spike.
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,513Subscriber
    Pre I lean on flatting here instead of 3b due to the dead money. I don't like the position on flatting though. If there are aggro players behind I would lean on 3b or fold. If they are loose predictable passive call.

    As played fold flop. Look at the hand from his perspective. You called an UTG1 raise. Very likely that board hit you hard. So for him to bet he can't be bluffing. His outs are yours.

    As for the turn just call. He has bet twice now into 2 people. Your hand is well disguised. He 99% dosn't have the NF or 2ndNF because he would XC on this turn card. It's very likely he flopped it or has a strong hand instead of a pair + draw.
  • Steveo76 Posts: 159Subscriber
    Thanks for the comments fellas.

    As played, Hero c/raised all-in for £299. UTG folded. Pre-flop raiser tanked for about 4 mins before calling with AsQh and scooped when the river bricked.

    I don't like much about the way I played this hand. I suppose the pre-flop call is fine, although I will consider mixing in the occasional 3! in this spot in future to push out the UTG limper and go to the flop heads up with the betting lead if the original raiser just calls.

    @JredA makes a good point about how my hand looks like it has connected well with the flop at the first glance. The reality is different and I agree with all the posters that I should have folded here.

    On the turn I think my c/r shove is rash and screams 'draw'. Villain should be thinking that I would have raised a straight on the flop (holding KJ) or a set. And the 9d turn only makes one other holding (that would have called a flop bet) into a straight, that being exactly Jc8c. Also it is unlikely I would have called on the flop with a hand as weak as pocket nines which now improves to a set.

    I leaned too much on a couple of factors here:

    Firstly, that a turn c/r almost always signifies super strength at these stakes, so this seemed like a good spot and ideal opponent to use the Baluga theorem on (thanks @Superfly). But I feel like I misapplied it here because my story just doesn't check out.

    Secondly, I was taking a wild punt that Villain only had a one pair hand. After he's bet again into two players on this dripping wet board I think he has two pair+ WAY more than he has say AK.

    So a call OTT was clearly the play getting good immediate odds and also implied odds with a deceptive hand should I hit.

    One key adjustment I need to make going forward is to recognise that there are times to play draws passively and just take my equity. This was one of those spots on the turn in this hand. I also could have repped a club had it arrived on the river, playing it this way. By blowing off the dust on my CALL button I can open up more paths to victory!

  • CycleV Posts: 1,177Subscriber
    Sounds like you've taken some good stuff from this hand, which is awesome!

    The last point you mention is an interesting one, about adding/keeping the call button in our arsenal. CLP has helped me become so much more aggressive, and that has been mandatory as I've moved up in stakes, but lately I find myself becoming much more selective about when to apply it.

    Fold equity, balance, aggression...these are all true and correct ideas, but I found that by leaning more into theory-based play, I was veering off of the exploitative play that attracted me to CLP in the first place. "
  • Superfly Posts: 559Subscriber
    edited February 19
    Good stuff here, Steve-o,

    I have found Rob Farha’s videos to be esp good for learning when to be aggressive and when to pull back. He is very aggressive in some spots and unexpectedly (for me) cautious in others. Great mix of exploitative and balanced thinking.

    If you do watch them, recommend pausing the video at the start of each street and thinking how you would play the hand. Then continue the video and see what Rob says. I find I learn and retain things much better this way. Rob can talk kind of fast and continuous and I find myself getting dazed if I just listen straight through. But I’m old and that might just be me!
  • Steveo76 Posts: 159Subscriber
    Thanks for the positivity and advice @CycleV and @Superfly! It's cool having you guys in my corner.

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