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What would you call with $5-10 Deep?

BartBart Posts: 5,920AdministratorLeadPro
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
I just got back from a long session of deep $5-10 at the Bike last night. Basically the entire game was running around this one passive guy that was playing about 95% of his hands. The lineup was mostly midstakes grinders and no one was really making any moves on each other.

Villain in the hand is a white mid 20's kid. I may have played with him once or twice before at Commerce $5-10 but don't remember.

$3600 Eff.

He opens to $35 UTG. Big Spot calls in HJ, I call in CO with KJ. Bttn calls. Pot $150

Flop: Jd 2s 2c. Kid bets $90, Spot folds, I call, button folds. $Pot 330

Turn: 5s. Kid bets $225. I call. Pot $780.

River Qs. Kid bets $425. I make it $1200. Kid shoves for $2050 more.

What are you calling with here vs someone that is very unlikely to bet 3 bet the river as a bluff?

Bart

Comments

  • Tyrith Posts: 353Subscriber
    His line is repping so much strength here. This line looks pretty consistent with either a set of Js or QQ that ran into the second nuts. The bottom of his range looks like some sort of nut flush he was double barreling with, or AsJs if your river raise was a bluff and not with the K-high flush.

    Instead, let's say we have AsJs here. What lower flushes can he even have here? He raised UTG and and barreled flop OOP to three people. It's a pretty good texture, sure, but if there's a giant donkey in there c-betting this seems suboptimal, and nothing that makes a non-nut flush on the river has any non-BD equity on the flop other than a naked K. And even if he has a K-high flush, he's shoving to get called by what? I just don't see him ever having a flush we beat here.

    If we have JJ, does he ship the river with the nut flush to get called by a K-high or J-high flush? Same stuff applies as above - how is everyone getting to the river with these flushes? That said, there's at least more of a chance of what would be a marginal overplay, so if we have JJ I think we have to call because of pot odds. Against a really good, thinking player, though, wouldn't JJ be kind of dubious?

    So the bottom line is, we can't really call with anything. Line screams QQ.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    You can also call with pocket 2s. His line is very strong pocket Jacks unlikely since you have a J so that leaves pocket 5s or pocket Qs.. Maybe he does this with the nut flush but I would discount that as well since the board is paired.. but if he knows you tend to play nutty hands faster he might read your hand for something other than that strong of a hand.

    My question to you is what was your thinking by raising on the river? Were you trying to get him off of AJ? Did you think his relatively small river bet was bluffy?

    ww
  • AesahAesah Posts: 1,048Pro
    If we're saying "very unlikely" as we can discount bluffs almost entirely in our analysis to make things simple (which seems reasonable given this spot as you have too many nutted hands for him to bluff very often), then I would call with QQ/22 only.

    If he always plays QQ this way, then you can't call with JJ unless he raises UTG, cbets flop, bombs turn, and 3-bets river with 55 ~65% of the time he is dealt 55 UTG (or has an equivalent amount of random spaz in his range). Turn sizing makes me discount 55/22 as it's pricing out flush draws.

    Also you didn't give your suits but if you have KsJs you block all his Asxs hands of course. I would expect villain to have QQ over 60% of the time here if you have no queens in your hand.

    (this situation where you can basically never continue with any of your range due to blockers is a lot more common in PLO)
  • BradleyT Posts: 621SubscriberProfessional
    Is your KJ spades?
  • Steve Posts: 149Subscriber
    Yeah, if the guy is never bluffing here, I think you can only call with QQ or 22.
  • BartBart Posts: 5,920AdministratorLeadPro
    Thehammah said

    You can also call with pocket 2s. His line is very strong pocket Jacks unlikely since you have a J so that leaves pocket 5s or pocket Qs.. Maybe he does this with the nut flush but I would discount that as well since the board is paired.. but if he knows you tend to play nutty hands faster he might read your hand for something other than that strong of a hand.

    My question to you is what was your thinking by raising on the river? Were you trying to get him off of AJ? Did you think his relatively small river bet was bluffy?

    ww
    Wendy,

    I actually thought that this was a really good spot to bluff as my hand can easily be Js Xs, JJ, 55, or 22. It is going to be very difficult for him to call with AA, KK, a random queen or AJ.

    I meant to not mention what I had in my initial post because I wanted to see if people would find a fold with 555 here. People are saying that they would fold JJJ, and although this might be the correct laydown I rarely see it made in practice. I think an even better hand to turn into a bluff on the river is QJ, as we block his big boats but still should try to get AA and KK to fold. Anyway I will surely mention this hand on the podcast. I assume that almost everyone thinks that As Js is a fold here.

    And also, why would I turn my hand into a bluff Wendy, if I though his river bet was bluffy?

    Bart
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    I was thinking not that his bet was necessarily a bluff per se... but that some of his "bluffs" might beat you.. Ie the KK or AA or AJ hands so your raise is basically to get him off a bluffs (he would fold those anyways) but also as more of a blockish type bet you could also get him off value hands that beat yours but also wont call.

    sorry should have been a bit more descriptive..

    Wendy
  • reemas Posts: 100Member
    If you can't call with 55, then you can't call with JJ, right?

    (I'm assuming he doesn't shove with 55, if we're not willing to call when we hold 55.)

    p.s. I know this can't happen because we both can't have 55 at the same time but it's relative.
  • Steve Posts: 149Subscriber
    Bart said
    People are saying that they would fold JJJ, and although this might be the correct laydown I rarely see it made in practice.

    Bart
    Yeah, it's a lot easier to say JJJ is a fold away from the heat of the moment. It might be hard to lay that down in practice, but I think it is a fold given the player you describe.

    Oh, and the guy that was playing 95% of his hands left the Bike around 4:00 PM today.
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