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1/2 Do bluff paranoid rec players bluff themselves?

thebram Posts: 4Member
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
I'm a fairly new subscriber and new to live NL, so generally try and play ABC value poker, but I felt like this was a spot I could take advantage of a weak player in position.
I apologize for not having exact bet/pot amounts. Remembering hands and taking notes is something I need to work on.

Villain had been playing very loose passive pre-flop and was a pure calling station on the river. But something I became aware of was that when facing a river bet, he would ALWAYS comment about thinking the other player was bluffing.

Playing 1/2 with a $5 straddle. Effective stacks ~ 70 BB.
Villain limps EP. Folded to me in CO and I raise with 64spade. Folded back to villain who calls.
Flop is JJ4 with two diamonds.
Villain checks, I bet, he calls.
Turn is a 4.
Villain checks, I bet, he calls.
River is a black 5.
Villain thinks a bit then shoves.

I realize not having the bet amounts makes analysis awkward. If it's required, I could probably construct approximate amounts based on how I'd expect I played it.
At the time, I tried to construct a range for him but pretty much came up with any suited [A-J,x], any two broadway cards, lots of suited connectors and one-gappers and pocket pairs.
If he was going to donk, I just dont see him waiting until the river to donk with J,x. He was passive but I didn't think he was so passive that he would only bet with the nuts.
I thought that his thrill of wanting to catch bluffers might translate to a thrill of getting away with a bluff.
So I convinced myself that there was no chance of a jack and that he was bluffing with a diamond draw.
I'll be honest, even as I was throwing in the chips I felt like I was just looking for a reason to avoid folding a full house.

So questions are:
1) Is 64s just too weak to iso raise? Afterwards I was thinking that I should raise hands that can flop weak and still hold up to a station at showdown.
2) Is my excuse for eliminating a J from his range too thin?
3) Can there be any correlation between wanting to catch bluffs and making bluffs? Or vice versa?

Thanks

Comments

  • NicholasK Posts: 237Member
    thebram said
    I'm a fairly new subscriber and new to live NL,
    Welcome
    thebram said
    1) Is 64s just too weak to iso raise? Afterwards I was thinking that I should raise hands that can flop weak and still hold up to a station at showdown.
    Yes. especially against a calling station when you are going to have little FE and a very wide limp/calling pre range. I'd much rather play that hand against a very tight nit's open...but then I'd just flat anyway.
    thebram said
    2) Is my excuse for eliminating a J from his range too thin?
    Yes. The evaluation on whether someone is capable of bluff raising should be based on observation. I think it's a bad idea to assume anyone is capable of bluff raising oop into a bet, bet on the river without specific knowledge.
    thebram said
    3) Can there be any correlation between wanting to catch bluffs and making bluffs? Or vice versa?
    Maybe but it's entirely villain dependent.
  • AesahAesah Posts: 1,048Pro
    In general, loose passive calling stations do not bluff very often.

    I wouldn't think too much about it. You can also use the reverse reasoning that they're less likely to bluff because they always call so they always expect to get called.
  • thebram Posts: 4Member
    Thanks for the replies.
    I think this is what I was figuring and just wanted confirmation on.
    Aesah said

    In general, loose passive calling stations do not bluff very often.
    .

    Funny thing is, even after making the call, I'm still not sure if he was bluffing or not.
    He turned over pocket 5s for a rivered bigger boat.
    He basically turned his hand into a bluff but I'm 90% sure he didn't see it that way. He hit the card he was waiting for so he shoved.

    Even though I was right that he didn't have a jack, I wasn't confident enough in my reasoning to pat myself on the back for it. I guess that will come with experience.
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