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Bet 3b River with 8 high. Whaaat?

SpewArtist Posts: 68Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
So I'm not sure if this is the best hand I've ever played but its definitely near the top of the list as one of the sickest.

Game: 2/5 NL, 4 Handed
Villain: Villain is good agro reg. Capable of value betting/raising lite, bluff raising, floating, etc. He plays real good. Definitely the second best player in the room (get it?). He's also my best friend and roommate. We discuss hands all the time and generally know each other's game really well. So with that said, let the leveling begin!

Hero ($865): BTN, Raises to $10 with 8spade4spade
Villain ($900): BB, Calls $10

- I don't usually ever min raise but I just did it here because SB was tight and Villain 3 bets a good amount from the BB to a 3x, so the idea was to avoid getting 3b as much and keep his range wider while I'm in position. Also, Villain subscribes to the school of thought that you should basically defend everything from the BB to a min raise. I don't agree with this, but make no mistake, he has basically any two here.

Flop ($22): 5spade7club2spade

- Way above average flop for my hand. Flopped a fd and gutter. My plan at this point is to triple barrel almost any run out. Pretty standard.

Villain ($890): Checks
Hero ($855): Bets $15
Villain ($890): Calls $15

Turn ($52): Tdiamond

Villain ($875): Checks
Hero ($840): Bets $40
Villain ($875): Calls $40

River ($132): 9heart

Villain ($835): Checks
Hero ($800): Bets $110
Villain ($835): Raises to $300

Alright, so now the fun starts.

Final Board: 5spade7club2spadeTdiamond9heart

So what's Villain's range here?
To me, this is classic capped range vs uncapped range. First question is can he have a set? I think the answer is a resounding "no." We are too deep for him to ever play a set like this and he's a good enough player to know that he has to try and get the money in, either by raising flop, or raising turn. Secondly, can he have a straight? Again, I don't think so. I have the 8spade so he can't have Jspade8spade. What about 68? Again, I have the 8spade so 6spade8spade is impossible. That only leaves a bare 86, with no flush draw. I don't think he ever takes this line with just 68. He's either going to raise flop, or more likely turn. So, all that being said, his range is capped at 57, 59, T7, T5, T2, Tspade9spade, or bluffs. And I do believe he does have a good amount of bluffs here. With a bare flush draw, I think he's liable to take this exactly line a good deal of the time. He can also have something like 7x of spades or a 5 that he turns into a bluff. I can have all sets, both straights with Jspade8spade and 68, all of which I would play the exact same way.

Sooooo, our range is nutted and Villain's is capped.

Hero: Moves allin for $500 more. ($800 total).
Villain: Folds

Hero: Shows 8spade4spade, the table goes nuts and everyone starts puking because they've never seen anything so sick.

Shipppp Shipppp Miiiggippp!

(I make it a rule to never show, but I just couldn't help myself, my ego got the best of me, I had to show this one.)

After the hand, I talked to Villain and he said he had T5. So he was value raising river, and I just had the perfect hand to bet 3b river with. If you're Villain here, do you play the hand differently? And if you do take this line, what's your range for calling river? Anything?

Your turn ladies and gents, fellate or flame away!

Comments

  • Tyrith Posts: 353Subscriber
    My only question is why you are playing at this table to begin with. 4 handed, one of your three opponents is really good, another is tight enough that you're min-raising him, just doesn't sound like a good dynamic. Were you anticipating other players sitting down? Was the fourth player a total donkey? Otherwise this seems like kind of a table selection leak.

    As for the hand itself, your reasoning is very sound and I find your play very admirable - it takes perfect advantage of the depth of your reads and the context of the situation. Well done.
  • SpewArtist Posts: 68Subscriber
    Tyrith said

    My only question is why you are playing at this table to begin with. 4 handed, one of your three opponents is really good, another is tight enough that you're min-raising him, just doesn't sound like a good dynamic. Were you anticipating other players sitting down? Was the fourth player a total donkey? Otherwise this seems like kind of a table selection leak.
    This was the last hand before the table was breaking. I would have played 4 handed though too, because one of the 4 was a huge fish.
    Tyrith said
    As for the hand itself, your reasoning is very sound and I find your play very admirable – it takes perfect advantage of the depth of your reads and the context of the situation. Well done.
    TY for the compliments.
  • AesahAesah Posts: 1,048Pro
    postflop seems fine. 88 or 66 is slightly better if you want to do this more often

    preflop minraise is suicidal in most casinos as you will *both* be put in a -EV situation thanks to the rake. however if it's time rake then i play it the same
  • reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,145Subscriber
    SpewArtist said

    Also, Villain subscribes to the school of thought that you should basically defend everything from the BB to a min raise.
    This part I don't really understand. If the BB defends anything to a min-raise, then wouldn't you want to 2x his BB with your value hands, and 3-4x his BB with your trash (plus an occasional value hand to keep things spicy)? I understand that he likes to 3! light - therefore, isn't it more optimal to then 2-3x 4! his frequent 3b with your trash (and some of your value hands) than it is to 2x open with 84s if he's calling his entire range?
  • SpewArtist Posts: 68Subscriber
    reedmylips said

    This part I don't really understand. If the BB defends anything to a min-raise, then wouldn't you want to 2x his BB with your value hands, and 3-4x his BB with your trash (plus an occasional value hand to keep things spicy)? I understand that he likes to 3! light - therefore, isn't it more optimal to then 2-3x 4! his frequent 3b with your trash (and some of your value hands) than it is to 2x open with 84s if he's calling his entire range?
    Yea, you could definitely be right here. I just think there's merits to both sizings.
  • ChristopherSheffield Posts: 20Subscriber
    I'd like to fellate you but not for the way you played the hand.
  • SpewArtist Posts: 68Subscriber
    ChristopherSheffield said

    I'd like to fellate you but not for the way you played the hand.
    Must be my looks than.
  • SatanLovesPoker Posts: 168Member
    Love it! These are the things that make the game truley fun in my opinion. Looking forward to more of these, now that
    you set the bar!
  • Mike Posts: 371Member
    He said villian likes to 3b the 3x open and not the min raise. So with your theory he should be opening his value hands larger and the hands he wants to play IP smaller.

    Overall it seems like a good spot to bluff with the 8s in your hand makes it very hard for him to have a hand that he can call with. I think this would be suicidal against an op who doesnt know your game very well though. Since a ton of people will think you can still have overpairs in your range.
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