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2/5 facing heat on wet board

TDF Posts: 1,130Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
EP(500) limps, Hero(500) limps in MP, CO(450) opens to 30, BB(500) calls, EP calls, Hero calls. 4 way.
(120) JclubTclub9spade Checked to CO who bets 85. BB folds, EP calls, Hero calls
(375) 3diamond. Checked to CO who ships for 335. EP folds. What's our calling range?

CO is somewhat aggressive preflop. Opens more than others, barrels postflop. He rarely gets to showdown so we don't see his hands much.

Comments

  • Mike Posts: 371Member
    I would assume that the CO is going to have a very strong range here to bet that board into 4 people and then follow through with a shove on the turn into 3 people. I imagine his range is like 99-QQ, AK, 78, and combo draws. I dont think he would play even KK this way if he is semi decent since the only hands that he beats that can realistically call are like QJ hands like 89cc 9Qcc which have so much equity vs him.

    If im in this spot i dont even think that we have a calling range since anything that we would want to get in here we should have just shoved the flop.
  • nahcretep Posts: 108Subscriber
    from your other post, it seems you would be raising or iso with decent holdings in the position..interested to know what you limp and only flatting this flop.
    Im folding here since you probably raise with all you strong holdings on the flop...?
  • beepbeep Posts: 28Member
    His bet sizing smells like an overpair trying to price you and EP out of your drawing hands.
    My calling range would be 2 prs + until I've seen him show down some bluffs. It is less likely your typical Villian would shove as a bluff though, when there's still 2 others in the hand. It'd be different if it was heads up.
  • TDF Posts: 1,130Subscriber
    beepbeep, Wouldn't you raise 2 prs+ on the flop? I don't think we can turn 2 pair.
  • TDF Posts: 1,130Subscriber
    I actually was in CO and made this play with QdiamondTdiamond
    What do you think about it?
  • KyleKiniry Posts: 18Subscriber
    your CO play seems really good i think. your betting into 2 ppl, makes ur range appear as AJ +
    with 2 other ppl in the hand, i feel that any other 2 pair+ hand is not just flatting on the flop. Not saying their range is always capped but with standard players it most likely is. I think that your able to get a nice combo bet by getting many J to fold since your just looking so strong and your occasionally getting flush draws to spew off which ur ahead of. I mean unless the other players in the hand are just clueless, your action throughout the hand pretty much makes their calling range have to be pretty strong equity wise. smile
  • beepbeep Posts: 28Member
    TDF said

    beepbeep, Wouldn't you raise 2 prs+ on the flop? I don't think we can turn 2 pair.
    sorry you're right, brain was on auto-pilot mode.. frown

    that play is very strong and merges well with your value hands. Out of curiosity, why are you raising QTs in the CO when it plays well multiway with 100BB effective stacks. Do you get stuck in awkward spots often at these levels where the Villians are so sticky ?

    Would you play AA, KK, or AJs the same way?
  • TDF Posts: 1,130Subscriber
    beepbeep said
    Out of curiosity, why are you raising QTs in the CO when it plays well multiway with 100BB effective stacks.
    I feel more comfortable playing in raised pots than in limped pots. It might be my background or something IDK. My limping range in late positions is almost non-existent.

    Do you get stuck in awkward spots often at these levels where the Villians are so sticky ?
    Obv I lose quite often - can't win every pot but I believe opening any hand is better then limping it in late positions.

    Would you play AA, KK, or AJs the same way?
    I think I would play AA-88, KJo+, any pair+OESD, 9clubXclub this way.
  • marseille Posts: 400Subscriber
    Before seeing spoiler, I'd say my calling range is two pair +. If I think you have wider opening range and have high barreling frequency, I probably check two pair there. Checking turn would depend on my read of ep player. As played, nice play, though I'm surprised you'd play overpairs like this, since you make it hard for worse to call.
  • TDF Posts: 1,130Subscriber
    marseille said
    I'm surprised you'd play overpairs like this, since you make it hard for worse to call.
    What worse hands you want to keep in? Pair+gutshot has 20% equity vs AA. I don't mind them folding all this equity. And I certainly don't want to give them correct odds to call.
  • TDF Posts: 1,130Subscriber
    What surprised me most about this hand is that MP called turn shove with 77. Does my line from CO look so bluffy?
  • Arenzano Posts: 1,399Subscriber
    It does not look bluffs but without reads on you it looks like an over pair trying protect or nothing. I would look at the play as polarized. I think my calling range is two pair plus most of the time and maybe AJ dependent on prior history.
  • BrokeDonk Posts: 7Subscriber
    Before I saw the results I thought that given the player description I'd want a hand that could beat a pair+draw at showdown unimproved, so the bottom of my calling range I figured would have to be KJ/QJ.

    The line doesn't look all that bluffy but you're going to have a lot of pair+draw hands and probably not too much complete air like 4diamond5diamond. So calling with 77 is a bit perplexing especially since he probably doesn't even have the 6 outs he's counting on for when he's behind.
  • PokerIsFrustrating Posts: 657Member
    I"m not entirely sure why we even care why villain called with 77. We've established there are bad players at 2/5. I doubt this is breaking news to anyone.

    Obviously 77 isn't a call. What we've learned (or maybe not) is that people don't like to fold in 100bb cap games, especially to people who are perceived as opening all the time, barreling all the time and not showing hands down.
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