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2-3-5 at Bay

ABC Posts: 51Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
My image is solid TAG. Villain came and sat down 30 mins ago bought in for full 500; seems decent TAG. Has a stack of 600 and I cover.

I raise to 20 with KhKc from UTG. Six others call.

Flop(140): Kd Qs 8d. I bet 85, folds to villain in CO. He makes it 185.

How do I proceed and why?

Comments

  • Mike Posts: 371Member
    im going to 3b here. Small raises like this IME are so the V can get 2 cards vs the top of your range with some type of draw. most people in your spot with a monster will call and go for a ch/r on the turn. but when the V checks back the turn you lose an entire street of value vs hands like JT and some gs or fds. You also dont want to risk having a scare card come on the turn that will prevent you from getting stacks in. This board is so wet there is no reason that you shouldnt be 3b here. I would prob just ship the flop.

    Keep in mind that if you don't have any reads on the V then that means he doesn't have any on you. He has no idea what kinda shoving range you have on flops like this. Or he does have a read on you and you weren't paying attention to the way he plays.
  • Tyrith Posts: 353Subscriber
    I think this is a ship. You block a lot of the top pair hands that would be doing this as an information/see where he's at raise. That means it's either two pair plus or a draw.

    The two pair plus hands will probably all call off - they could easily perceive you as doing this with AA or AK. Flush draws will all be just about priced in, and straight draws will be close enough to maybe call but not so close that you don't get to take advantage of them calling incorrectly. And you don't want to let a diamond roll off and lose value from the weaker value hands he has.
  • Arenzano Posts: 1,391Subscriber
    You have to ship it here. The V is never folding. You are 60/40 favorite against JTd.
  • YoungGrinder Posts: 210Subscriber
    "How much is it?"
    ...
    "I'm all-in."

    Sounds about right! You can't do a 3bet here without shoving as you begin to lay your villain too good of a price.
  • mtnracer Posts: 9Member
    Ship it. You're killing other worse made hands, and there's no value in stringing along draws.
  • ABC Posts: 51Subscriber
    OK, looks like clear consensus is to ship it. And that's what I did.

    And villain open-folded 88 and owned me!! Or perhaps made a bad fold... In reality, the only worse hands I am shipping here are JTdd and KQ. I will flat NFD. And I will probably not open-raise UTG with KQo. So his fold isn't really terrible...
  • Arenzano Posts: 1,391Subscriber
    The fact he folded doesn't matter. It sucks he let 888 go but 99/100 you'll get a call or reraise in that spot.
  • Tyrith Posts: 353Subscriber
    Yeah, I'm really surprised that he would have your range be so tight there, since a lot of people would 3-bet ship with AA there.
  • mtnracer Posts: 9Member
    He should never show a fold like that. Now you can properly-size/shove all your flush draws until he adjusts. His fold is an exploit, and nothing to be proud of.
  • ABC Posts: 51Subscriber
    I tanked for like 30-45 seconds... may be that gave him the impression I was very strong. I know, even though 3b shipping AA their is a clear overplay (and I'd never do it), lots of people would.
  • chilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    his sizing is super bizarre for flopping bottom set. like crazy weird. i can't remember ever seeing a raise sized like this with a set on a draw heavy board. ever. he beat you in this hand somehow. how he folds after making a tiny inducing raise is absolutely crazy.
    as already posted, you can now re-level this guy and bet/3bet flops with basically almost any equity.
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