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Interesting hand with live reads, game dynamics, and thin value

MichaelFirmani Posts: 3Member
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
This hand comes from a $1/$2 game (i know this is much lower stakes than usually posted here but the hand was interesting) and it was one of the biggest pots i've played in a live game as I don't get much time to play except a few weekends a month but I do have a lot of experience online.

The villain in this hand is a little younger than, me he looked about 21 or 22 and seemed like a bad thinking player and I'll explain that real quick right now. There was a maniac at the table who was shoving straight draws, calling all 3 streets with middle or top pair no kicker and basically just donating to everyone. This villain and him played a hand where the flop was Q high and the maniac donk bet 2/3 pot and the kid showed me pocket kings and just mucked it. So he can fold hands but makes horrible decisions is what i gathered from that. Sorry for the long intro but it goes into my plans and change of plans in this hand. This happened a few months ago so the numbers are off but its pretty close.

-Effective stacks are around $300
-My image is pretty good, ive only shown down good hands and ive been playing pretty tight
-I'm in the SB and get dealt KcQs
-3 limpers and it gets to me and i raise it to $15 (standard opening for everyone was $10)
-Villain is in the BB and calls. The 3 limpers fold (duh) so pot is $39
- Flop comes KdQdTs
-I bet $20, Villain makes it $45
-Now as far as I'm concerned the only thing I was worried about was TT and i thought he might have JTdd, ATdd, QJs, something like that and since I had seen him fold those kings without thinking and my above average and tight image I decided to get him to fold basically his entire range unless he flopped it.
-I make it $110
-Villain is in some obvious discomfort and I now know that I have the best hand and my line of thinking changes completely from here on out. He pauses for a while and asks to himself if I flopped a set which further reinforces my hand strength. He decides to just call.
-I just know by seeing his body language and the way he was talking that that hes never folding once he calls there any non diamond I'm basically going to ship for value hoping he levels himself into calling like a lot of these younger guys seem to do at these low stakes from my experience.
-Turn is the 5c
-I go all in for about $175
-Villain tanks for a while and keeps asking if I have a set finally he calls and he has QcTc and I win a nice pot considering I feel like both of us had the bottom of our ranges there.

As I actually write this out I see how absurd the entire hand seems but that's the great thing about live poker. There's much more going on while the hand is being played that you can use for information. Normally Bart's advice of not trying to bluff people is 100% correct and this was a super rare situation where I was trying to get him to fold a hand but then realized that i could extract max thin value as the hand went on.

Comments

  • KyleKiniry Posts: 18Subscriber
    I think the most important part of this hand is being asked the question "What would you have done if he shoved back on the flop". If you don't know what the answer to that question is fairly quickly, then i think the raise itself or the sizing might be wrong. My knee jerk reaction for this flop play would be just to call flop and see what happens. You stated at the end of the hand that his holding was probably at the bottom of his value range that you beat. If this is so then I believe that a call flop and check/evaluate turn is fairly better. Then if its possible to check/call non diamond turns, then check/folding river may be best. Considering this guy is folding KK in a spot that you said was really bad, i doubt he's just firing river as a bluff at the end and may even check Q 10 back. . smile
  • AesahAesah Posts: 1,048Pro
    why do you want him to fold his entire range when you beat everything (except sets+ which he isn't folding)
  • NicholasK Posts: 237Member
    MichaelFirmani said
    -Now as far as I'm concerned the only thing I was worried about was TT and i thought he might have JTdd, ATdd, QJs, something like that and since I had seen him fold those kings without thinking and my above average and tight image I decided to get him to fold basically his entire range unless he flopped it.
    You can't fold out his entire range. the previous hand he folded an overpair, not 2 pair+. Your bet was good because it's a spot that CAN get called by worse (draws and weaker 2 pair). If you think he's continuing with only better then the bet would be awful.
  • MichaelFirmani Posts: 3Member
    Aesah said

    why do you want him to fold his entire range when you beat everything (except sets+ which he isn't folding)
    I totally agree with this and reviewing this hand made me realize that in most situations this is really bad. I honestly thought he had AK, TT, or a combo draw that he would fold based on his folding pocket kings in that previous hand. I really got the sense that he was that bad and didn't understand his hand value in many situations. This was a raise fold situation where I turned my hand into a bluff and once I saw his reaction I changed my thinking to getting thin value from any hand that he called with which was basically narrowed down to AK, or QT once he just flats in a way where he's saying "o well I can't get away from it"


    If he shoves my raise then I would snap fold because he has AJ 100% and once again based on his talking and flat call I knew that my hand was best and he was going to call with worse on the blank turn. I completely expected him to turn over AK after he asked if I flopped a set.
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