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Kind of lost on the turn

GlennJones Posts: 158Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Game is 1/2 NL. Standard raise at this table is $12. Hero in HJ. Villain is BTN. Effective stacks are $215 and villain covers. Villain is an older aggro player playing down because there is no larger game going on.

BTN straddle in play. Hand is limped a couple ways to Hero who raises to $12 with KspadeTspade. Folds to BTN who tanks for a few seconds and finally calls. One other limper calls. Preflop pot is $36 less drop (this is in California) for $31.

Flop Theart9diamond8heart. Checks to Hero who bets $20. Villain tanks (longer this time) and calls. Third player folds.

At this point, I am not sure if Villain's tank is that he is trying to figure out if he should call or if he should raise here. He is most likely on a pretty wide range. I'm not comfortable stacking off with TPGK. Villain is capable of bluffing, but would probably only do so with a hand that has decent equity (e.g., JTs).

Turn is 3club. Bet/fold here? If so how much? I have about $180 left. Villain covers. Or is a better line check/call with the intent of evaluating river?

Keeping in mind that villain tank called preflop and flop, are we drawing dead here against a hand here like TT or 99?

Comments

  • Arenzano Posts: 1,399Subscriber
    I think your PF raise is too small given its a straddled pot which cuts your effective stack in half. Assuming the button straddle is $4 plus the blinds ($3) and two additional limpers $8, the pot is $15 when it gets to you. If I'm reading your post correctly.

    I think if I chose to play this hand I'm raising to $22-27 pre. Your C-bet on the flop is fine. On the turn I might bet 1/2 pot and fold to any aggression. Checking will put you in a bad spot as you'll be oop and have no real clue as to what to do on the river.
  • SpewArtist Posts: 68Subscriber
    Agree with guy who said your PFR was a little small. With a straddle, I'm making it like $20.

    You're forced to bet turn. I'm betting like $50 and check folding a river 7 or Q, check deciding on a dimond, shoving a river K, and check calling it off on a total brick. The tank pre and post lead me to believe that this villain was more of a JT, QT hand a lot, don't really think his range is nutted with the tank.
  • AesahAesah Posts: 1,048Pro
    I would raise more pre, bet more on this flop texture, and always bet this blank turn card, probably calling a shove.
  • BrokeDonk Posts: 7Subscriber
    As has been said I'd raise more pre. i'd probably do $16-$20 depending on how call-happy the table is. Flop bet is fine. I'd probably do $25-$30 depending on preflop sizing. Turn I think you can definitely bet for value. Maybe something like $40-$50 as played. Probably not folding to a shove. Might even jam a blank river depending on whether or not I think villain can find a call with worse. At 1/2 you're going to value own yourself in spots like this a fair amount of the time. But that comes with the territory.
  • GlennJones Posts: 158Subscriber
    So, if we raise to $20 preflop, bet $30 flop and $50 turn - if we are jammed on on the turn what are we ahead of? $50 is a big bet in most 1/2 games. I would think that BTN's preflop range is something like 88-QQ, connected paint, AT+. Post flop, I would think that villains range would be sets, overpairs, TPTK, nut straight, perhaps a rare T9s or T8s. Very rarely would I expect a JTs to show up here as a semi bluff.

    If we're going to call any shove why not just pot the turn?
  • AesahAesah Posts: 1,048Pro
    GlennJones said
    If we're going to call any shove why not just pot the turn?
    same reason you wouldn't just jam all in preflop with AA
  • Tyrith Posts: 353Subscriber
    GlennJones said

    So, if we raise to $20 preflop, bet $30 flop and $50 turn - if we are jammed on on the turn what are we ahead of? $50 is a big bet in most 1/2 games. I would think that BTN's preflop range is something like 88-QQ, connected paint, AT+. Post flop, I would think that villains range would be sets, overpairs, TPTK, nut straight, perhaps a rare T9s or T8s. Very rarely would I expect a JTs to show up here as a semi bluff.

    If we're going to call any shove why not just pot the turn?
    Your range for him pre-flop seems super tight to me and inconsistent with a player that I would describe as aggro.

    I would be really surprised if anyone other than the nittiest of nits is folding QT or JT to either the flop or turn bet, and he can also have a lot of flush draws that will call a $45 bet here, especially flush draws with gutters.

    Whether or not you call a shove is a question of how aggro he is; he needs to be capable of shipping with those hands I just mentioned to make it worthwhile. And if he's capable of shipping with those hands, we need to be even more.

    This sort of money shoveling with one-pair happens in 100BB games where the pot winds up with 15BB in it pre-flop.
  • beepbeep Posts: 28Member
    Glenn, I'd bet more on the flop, maybe 25. And continue betting the turn. If the river is another brick bet whatever one-pair might hero call. His tank looks more like a hand with some kinda draw.
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