Welcome.

Take a tour. Enjoy some free sample content.

How it works

Free Video: CLP Video No. 287: Home Game Bart Reviews His Splashy At $1-$3 Deep Part 2

Free Podcast: CLP Podcast No. 54: Time Warp And Turn Value
New to Crush Live Poker?

Double barreling in the baby game..worth it?

ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Bart talks alot of boards good to double barrel. Like in my Read post I have tried this and have found it more successful it seems in the bigger tighter games then in the baby games. Last night I think I spewed a couple hundred on small boards like

732 or 8 43 etc.. with say AQ against a player who had a pair. they arent super short like 40 bbs.. they have bigger stacks but I think in the smaller games the players seem to be more willing to go with it with a pair .. ie they are playing only based on their hand strenght and give me no credit for an overpair..

I am beginning to wonder if it would be just better to treat the smaller games as if most players are calling stations and don't even try to double barrel.. like fancy play syndrome? A couple of hundred may not seem like such a big amount but the game is so much smaller that that amount can be my entire profit for the session.

thoughts?

Wendy

Comments

  • shmed Posts: 321Subscriber
    Great post. I see this up to $5/10 as well. On those boards some players with pocket pairs or made pairs also will call you down/ are showdown bound. They just don't believe that you've hit that flop as the PF raiser and bluff catch.

    My two cents is that it's situation dependent: against that kind of player, sometimes I don't c-bet because my image isn't right and I try to get free cards to a 6 out "overcard draw." Or I delayed cbet the turn after seeing that two streets have been checked down, increasing the chances the player does not anything. I definitely try to adjust -- I agree it's a common situation and I can leak a lot of chips this way.
  • Mike Posts: 371Member
    I tend to find that once people call the flop in smaller games they are in for the long haul. Just bet your hands for value and avoid trying to get people to fold pairs. The smaller games are 100% about value and not about bluffing. I would be pretty surprised if there was a game below $500 level where 2 barreling has a much higher frequency of success than just a cbet. You arent going to find those players who will float the flop with air waiting to take it away later... and if you do just note who those people are and use what you know against them.
  • I agree with what has been said. However on these types of boards Ks and As, are too good of cards not to double barrel. And if you have double barreled some other over card Ks and aces are too good not to triple barrel.

    Bart
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    Bart said

    I agree with what has been said. However on these types of boards Ks and As, are too good of cards not to double barrel. And if you have double barreled some other over card Ks and aces are too good not to triple barrel.

    Bart
    Yeah I think that seems to be the only way I can double barrel. If any small cards on turn I should just give up..

    Wendy
  • Doug Hull Posts: 15Member
    wendy weissman said

    732 or 8 43 etc.. with say AQ against a player who had a pair. they arent super short like 40 bbs.. they have bigger stacks but I think in the smaller games the players seem to be more willing to go with it with a pair .. ie they are playing only based on their hand strenght and give me no credit for an overpair..

    Wendy
    It totally does depend on the players and the turn card. Even at the bigger games, I choose my barreling based on the player as much as the turn card. There are calling stations at all levels. I classify the important players as people to value bet vs people to barrel. Certainly, as Wendy mentions, the level of the game is going to influence the count of nits to stations. Lower games have more stations, but if you have that one nit at the $1-$2 heads-up- time to barrel!

    Doug
  • Drew5harkDrew5hark Posts: 575Subscriber
    Excellent discussion...I've always felt that the double barrelling strategy generally will only work vs stronger thinking players and, honestly, how many of them are there at low level games? It seems often that when we do this, it is similar to assuming that your opponents think like you and can actually handread rather than just look at their cards. It's great to have in your game but I don't think you are losing any profit tightening up in low level games and value betting.
  • shmed Posts: 321Subscriber
    Bart said

    I agree with what has been said. However on these types of boards Ks and As, are too good of cards not to double barrel. And if you have double barreled some other over card Ks and aces are too good not to triple barrel.

    Bart
    Hi Bart, I'm not sure you follow. Are you talking about pocket KK and pocket AAs? Or are you talking about unpaired overcards with Ax or Kx? I understand if you meant the former, but if you meant the later can you explain? Based on relative hand strength/equivalency how are these different from other unpaired overcards against someone who might call you down with a single pair?
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    shmed said
    Bart said

    I agree with what has been said. However on these types of boards Ks and As, are too good of cards not to double barrel. And if you have double barreled some other over card Ks and aces are too good not to triple barrel.

    Bart
    Hi Bart, I'm not sure you follow. Are you talking about pocket KK and pocket AAs? Or are you talking about unpaired overcards with Ax or Kx? I understand if you meant the former, but if you meant the later can you explain? Based on relative hand strength/equivalency how are these different from other unpaired overcards against someone who might call you down with a single pair?

    I am pretty sure he was saying if an Ace or King hit the turn after you cbet you should bet again to represent .. In the games I play in I get called all the time with bottom or middle pair because no ace or king are on the board.. then a king or ace hit the turn you bet again and its really hard for someone to call you again with just say bottom or middle pair.

    I was alluding to when no broadway cards hit the turn and say its like a 2 or 3 brick cards.. In deeper games these also might be good cards to bet .. but in the games I have been playing lately the players just say " I have a pair" and they think I have AK and so when no A or K come on the board they want to bluff catch..

    Wendy
  • shmed Posts: 321Subscriber
    Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying!
  • WackabrewWackabrew Posts: 400Subscriber
    Just my two cents, but unless that I am absolutely positive that my opponent won't fold any piece of the board I am always double barrelling. Double barrelling establishes an image whereby people at the table know that they will nearly always have to call at least two bets post-flop, which discourages them from playing trash most of the time. You would also be surprised how many players will call one bet on a draw but not two.
  • StopHammertimeStopHammertime Posts: 81Member
    Bart's already commented, but what he also mentions on the podcasts isn't just the board texture. It's a combination of elements: the player(s) in the pot, position, board texture, your image (winning vs. losing), etc. The same board with a different player can be a much different situation.

    One time in a $1/2 game, a guy flopped a set against me and just called when I bet my gut-shot. I turned my straight and we ended up getting it all in. He was clearly steaming about the hand and the table noticed. The very next hand, I'm dealt TT out of early position that I raise and me and the same guy see the flop heads-up. I took him for three streets and he hung on with A9 on a 923xx board the entire way. I pulled over $500 off that guy in two consecutive hands in a $1/2 game. But if I had AK in that hand instead of TT, I never should have tried (and hope that I wouldn't have tried!) to double-barrel him because it was obvious he was going to call me down with something like TPTK the entire way.

    That said, I think your inclination that players in these smaller games are more likely to hang on with a pair may be right, especially if they have 88 or 66 on your 732 board. Q72 might be a better board to double-barrel against these players, ceteris paribus, or just resign yourself to value-betting them to death.
Sign In or Register to comment.