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2/5 NL Hand: 2k effective stacks

TakeTheOverTakeTheOver Posts: 21Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
This game is a semi-legal, raked game in a midwestern city. 3 players in the hand and knowledge of each player is necessary. Cord is a horrible, loose cannon of a player who seems to always lose the max. Debra is a 65 year old nice, rich lady who plays for the social aspects and usually plays bad but has bouts of playing well. Roy is an older gentlemen who plays tight and very solid. Effective stacks between Debra and Roy are $2k.

Debra from MP raises to 15, Roy calls from the CO and Cord does from the SB. Flop is 8h7s3h. Cord leads for $110, Debra calls, and Roy raises to $300. Cord quickly folds and now Debra shoves her stack in. Roy thinks for a minute or two and folds 33 face up. Debra shows him 88. Someone at the table admonished Debra for shoving making Roy's decision easy.

This hand occurred last night and a friend and I discussed this hand for twenty minutes today. First, Debra is not good enough to know Roy is never raising in position with any draw against those two villains. Secondly, Roy's fold is actually questionable as Debra's hand range is so wide. I have seen her show any over pair to the board, two pair, and sets in these spots. I do not remember her opening suited connectors very often from early position.

Thought's on this hand?

Our opinion is Debra should have raised the flop to isolate Cord and Roy would have probably 3 bet.


  • Mike Posts: 371Member
    why would debra raise with the nuts when the fish leads from oop for 2.5x pot? would be helfull to know the stack size of the fish as well. i think calling is fine here to let the fish barrel off. Obv its best to raise the flop when we know the other guy has a set as well. I think debra played the hand fine except for shovelling 2k into the pot on the flop.
  • SkinnybrownSkinnybrown Posts: 286Member
    We are 400bb deep. I think raising is the most effective way for getting the money in especially since the board can run out in ways that are bad for us.

    As the stack depths get shorter flat calling becomes more and more enticing.
  • I think that Debra should click the flop. If Roy is really solid behind here here strength is basically the same if she clicks or flat calls. Roy is always going to think that she has an overpair. If i were Debra I'd like to give the fish good odds to draw and call with any piece of the board.

    As far as the backraise goes--this is really player dependent. Vanessa Selbst got it in in this spot similarly deep against a whale although he wasnt the preflop raiser. Of course he had a set. Are you sure she would play QQ, KK, AA this way?

  • TakeTheOverTakeTheOver Posts: 21Subscriber
    The fish had about 800 behind. Debra would definitely play an overpair this way. Shoving on a drawing board is one of her plays for "protection". She does not understand the basics nor is she able to read hands at all with any player dependancy.

    Like I stated in the original post, Roy is never raising in position with a draw as he could get blown off it like what happened. Her flat allows him a cheap card to draw and makes the turn tricky or could kill her action. So his hand is somesort of made hand like 9's or 10's, two pair (87 only combo here) or sets. Obviously her top set crushes this range and she does not need to "protect". If Debra clicks after the donk lead, Roy three bets, and she might have got Roy's stack.

    Question I have, hand plays like it does and you are Roy. While deciding to call the all-in, Debra shows 10h9h and will only run it one time. DO you call 1,700 to win the 2400 now in the pot? It is a coin flip but with these players there would be better spots?
  • I understand that she would riase to protect--it just seems like she wouldn't flat then backraise. People that are scared of getting sucked out on will usually raise right away.

    A set of 3s is not a coin flip vs Th9h its 60%. If you aren't taking 60-40 edges getting laid 2400-1700 you shouldnt be playing at these stakes. No one is good enough to give up that much of an edge.

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