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Live $1/$2 PLO - 2 pair on the turn.

Chicago Iron Posts: 68Subscriber
This was a hand played at the local charitable games. The table was very soft, with 3-bets getting called in 4 or 5 spots. I was running rather poorly and stuck a buy in.

Hero is dealt KspadeTspade9heart5heart in the BB.

One limper and the button raises to $10. SB folds, I call in the BB and the limper folds.

Flop Kdiamond8diamond3club

Hero checks in the BB, BTN c-bets $15, I call.

Now I'll give me thought process and reasoning. The Button was easily the biggest spot at the table so when I left to get more chips I chose my seat to have position on him. He's been around a long time but still doesn't seem to understand that in full ring PLO you basically need the nuts or close to it. He's constantly over playing weak flushes. He'll stack off with any set. I've seen him check/call on the river with a straight on a paired board with a flush possible. So my overall read was that he was your typical LP, but at the moment was playing a little tighter I think because he was already stuck a couple BI's.

Now when he c-bets this flop I think I'm ahead a lot of the time. I think HU with him having position he is capable of bluffing with air, but I'd say most of the time he has some equity. He could have a K also but have me out kicked. He could have just a bare flush draw. But he could also have 2 pair since he's the type that play any 4 double suited. I call.

Turn 9spade

I make 2 pair and this is exactly the situation that I was hoping for. Now if I don't improve I'm likely check/folding since I don't think he's going to bluff the turn that often. But if I make 2 pair I think I'm ahead a lot. He's the type, especially on this board that has no possible straights or flushes, that will stack off with a weaker 2 pair here. I think he'll also continue with a lot of hands that lose a lot of equity on the turn like AdiamondXdiamondAX or QdiamondJdiamondTX.

Thoughts? Is a check/raise GII too wreckless? Am I discounting his range too much? Am I being overly optimistic in calling the flop to either re-evaluate or make 2 pair to GII? ALl comments and criticism welcome. Thanks

Comments

  • PhulHouze Posts: 200Member
    If stacks are about $25-35, I say definitely get it in wink
  • shmed Posts: 321Subscriber
    Constructive thoughts (agree w PH that stack sizes would help):
    PF: not in favor of the call OOP with disconnected cards. Double suited is positive, but would rather wait for opportunities in position.
    Flop: Not in favor of drawing to 2 pair OOP either. A 3rd diamond would be tough so you are really only looking for 8 outs (2 non-diamonds of each of your cards, all of which are dead to sets).
    Turn: Having hit your dream turn card, I would probably lead given your description of him and the fact that it looks like a blank card, so in that sense your hand is disguised (you look like you have the draw).
  • chilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    i think this might barely be a call preflop, but it is very close to a fold. position is huge in plo and you don't have it here.

    post flop, just fold. what are you drawing to? 2 pair without any diamonds in your hand? not a strong plo hand, and you are left in the dark when you actually hit the best possible card for your hand on the turn.

    as played, bet/fold turn. why would you check and give him a free card at a better 2 pair or flush draw? bet your hand -- this isn't NL.
  • khalwatkhalwat Posts: 997Subscriber
    chilidog said

    i think this might barely be a call preflop, but it is very close to a fold. position is huge in plo and you don't have it here.

    post flop, just fold. what are you drawing to? 2 pair without any diamonds in your hand? not a strong plo hand, and you are left in the dark when you actually hit the best possible card for your hand on the turn.

    as played, bet/fold turn. why would you check and give him a free card at a better 2 pair or flush draw? bet your hand -- this isn't NL.
    I agree with all of this. It's barely a call pre flop... I think the flop call isn't horrible if villain c-bets too much.

    As played, it's pretty mandatory for you to bet the turn. Many worse hands and draws will call you, and you can safely bet/fold unless he's the type to raise with strong draws on the turn.
  • ScottyScotty Posts: 48Subscriber
    PreFlop is loose but okayish if this guy is terrible as you stated. Problem is that its going to be 3 ways to the flop most of the time and this hand plays pretty bad multiway. The hand has low "nuttiness" (it doesnt make the nuts much)... however it does flop equity pretty well in the form of non-nut draws and mediocre made hands which can be alright heads up but mulitway prove to be very problematic. I think the best play here would be to 3b preflop to get it heads up against the bad player and then use your skill advantage to play better than him postflop. If you are not good enough to do this then i would just fold pre.
  • reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,145Subscriber
    shmed said

    PF: not in favor of the call OOP with disconnected cards. Double suited is positive, but would rather wait for opportunities in position.
    Shmed, et al,

    As I read more about PLO and get more experience, is there a different way to look at this hand? Since there was only one limper and a button raise, could we instead 3-bet this hand for isolation? By doing this, we make it more likely that both of our flush draws are live (hearts could easily be dominated if we're 3-way) and we take initiative in the hand and can c-bet fairly safe boards, of which this board is a prime candidate as it doesn't connect with very many hands. Only 2 pair+ and high diamond draws can continue.

    Previously, I would call or fold this hand (calling being worse than folding, although I was and still am a noob so I'm sure I've called worse in this spot lol). Now, I would fold or RAISE this hand, depending on villain and stack sizes.

    Thoughts?
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