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2/5nl line check 300BB's

Collecting_Tax Posts: 177Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
$1500 effective

Villain is white, under 30, playing TAG and seems to give up when pressured.
Hero has a good winning image playing LAG.

Villain opens to $15 UTG+2
2 calls
Hero calls in Hijack with J9 of clubs
Co calls

($75) Ah 9d 10d
Villain bets $40
folds to hero who calls
Co folds

($155) 2d
Villain bets $65
Hero raises to $165
Villain calls rather quickly

($485) 3c
Villain checks
Hero bets $200

Comments

  • regfish Posts: 34Member
    Are either of the 2 callers before you really terrible? How deep are they? Depending on those answers this is a great hand to 3bet with against described villain some percent of the time. Calling is fine too though.

    As played I like your line except I raise to around 210 on turn and bet around 3/4 pot on river. I love getting called on the turn and feel like a good amount of his range is pair + draw that he will fold to a river bet. If I think villain is capable of having and folding sets and or small flushes I would strongly consider overbetting the river. As a side note here I feel like if you take your time in these spots and have good table presence that increases your fold equity by a decent amount. For some reason players seem more intimidated when I take my time in these spots.
  • Collecting_Tax Posts: 177Subscriber
    To be honest, i dont remember. This hand happened on friday night and i just quickly wrote some notes into my iphone. Played all weekend, long sessions so its tough to recall past my notes.

    I agree though that my sizing should have been a little bigger on the turn but you really think i need to go bigger than $200 on the river? I know its less than half pot but how many people at this stake actually pay attention to pot size? I feel like most just see $200 pushed forward and even if the pot is $700 they still gasp at how big a bet it is.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    I think I am seeing this correct.. Preflop raiser bet when an ace hit the flop and bet again on turn? All hero had was a pair of 9s repping diamonds? I am folding on turn since I think Villains range is an ace most of the time an they aren't folding..pick a better spot to bluff.

    Wendy
  • SkinnybrownSkinnybrown Posts: 286Member
    If you take this line I think you need to bet bigger on turn and especially the river.

    I would go $200 on turn and $400-$600 on river.

    Maybe our games are different but if you bet $200 I think you are getting looked up by AK and AQ.

    I do think this is a +EV spot to bluff against certain villains.
  • Collecting_Tax Posts: 177Subscriber
    wendy weissman said

    I think I am seeing this correct.. Preflop raiser bet when an ace hit the flop and bet again on turn? All hero had was a pair of 9s repping diamonds? I am folding on turn since I think Villains range is an ace most of the time an they aren't folding..pick a better spot to bluff.

    Wendy
    usually i would have but i thought that his turn bet size was suspect and decided to follow my gut. when he called so fast i really thought it was a huge probability that he had AdX and that if the river was a brick i could bluff him out.
  • chilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    Obv u want to give yourself a good price on your bluff, but your turn and river bets are too small. He can easily call with pair+FD ott, and then crying call with top pair otr. Not a huge need for balance unless your player pool is super small.
  • reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,145Subscriber
    I don't know, Jon, I think I agree with Wendy here. Like in Star Wars ("These are not the droids you are looking for."), I don't think AT9dd is the flop you are looking for with J9cc. If you're thinking on the flop, "I think this guy is tight, so I'm gonna call this flop and try and take the pot away from him on the turn or the river if the turn raise fails." then I think you are in the wrong game or at least with the wrong line-up. There SHOULD be WAY better spots at this blind level to value bet and WAY better spots to bluff. If there aren't, then that game sucks IMHO.

    Put yourself in villain's seat. You raise PF with AK or AQ or AJ (these are all hands you hoped to barrel villain off), get called by everyone and their cousin, 5 way to the flop, AT9dd. You c-bet $40, get called by HJ who you think is LAGgy. Front door diamonds come in OTT, but you continue to bet for value ($65, not so big that you can't get called by worse) and get raised kinda small to $165. You're putting in $100 to win $285. If that's me, I'm calling all day long, and rather quickly this deep. Too early in the hand to put HJ squarely on a flush - there are still many combo draws out there and worse made hands. (maybe that makes me a station, but we can debate that later... Cool) However, I am probably going into call-down, bluff-catch mode at this point, as I want to protect my stack, and let HJ continue to fire with worse hands and draws.

    River is a brick, you check (bluff-catch, stack-protect mode), HJ bets $200. I'm pretty sure I call here with a big A.

    Am I a HUGE station or what???Laugh
  • StopHammertimeStopHammertime Posts: 81Member
    There are two conflicting elements here. Villain is tight, and gives up when pressured. Awesome! But he hits a board squarely in his UTG+2 opening range, c-bets, gets called, and then bet/calls the turn quickly. I think it's time to give up on bluffing this guy off of an ace. Have you seen Villain fold big aces when he's been pressured on a board that he's connected with?

    It's one thing to get him to fold AJ or 99 on a K32 board. This isn't that situation.

    This is the kind of board we wait to value-bet Villain to death on when we've got a set or two pair, or when we flopped top pair with the nut flush draw. Which means it's precisely the wrong board to be bluffing him off his AQ.
  • UntreatableFPS Posts: 1,004Subscriber
    You could just fold...

    But if you're going to do this, then you have to bet bigger on both the turn and river. Your sizing isn't much pressure. I would snap here getting almost 4:1

    If I wanted to bluff at it, I would make it $225 on the turn and observe the way he calls. If he's hesitant, than I would follow up with a bet of at least $450 on the river

    You realize how small a bet of 200 on the river is relative to the size of the pot, right? It's not much bigger than your turn bet, so even if he doesn't know exactly how big the pot is, he would know that it isn't a huge bet compared to your turn bet.
  • Collecting_Tax Posts: 177Subscriber
    Ok thanks. Just wanted to see what everyones thoughts were.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    JonMcFarland said

    Ok thanks. Just wanted to see what everyones thoughts were.
    I am still trying to figure out why you want to try to get someone off an Ace.. they bet twice on an ace high board. There are SOOOOO many other spots that are much better to bluff. The fact that they bet again is the key to me. If the diamond had come and they CHECKED then I think that is a much better spot to bluff. Villain might not even have an Ace in that spot..

    save your money and pick a better spot.. Remember that most of the money in this game is not from bluffing but from value betting. I think this is just one of those situations where you might get a bit spewy.. Bad players just dont like folding pairs of aces..

    Wendy
  • SkinnybrownSkinnybrown Posts: 286Member
    fwiw I am never peeling bottom pair here as our J may be dirty.

    as played tho we have to bluff turn and river and it has to be big.

    you guys think he is calling $200 on turn then $600 on river with AK?

    I wouldn't be in this spot but I think we have a +EV bluff here against certain villains...
  • Collecting_Tax Posts: 177Subscriber
    wendy weissman said
    JonMcFarland said

    Ok thanks. Just wanted to see what everyones thoughts were.
    I am still trying to figure out why you want to try to get someone off an Ace.. they bet twice on an ace high board. There are SOOOOO many other spots that are much better to bluff. The fact that they bet again is the key to me. If the diamond had come and they CHECKED then I think that is a much better spot to bluff. Villain might not even have an Ace in that spot..

    save your money and pick a better spot.. Remember that most of the money in this game is not from bluffing but from value betting. I think this is just one of those situations where you might get a bit spewy.. Bad players just dont like folding pairs of aces..

    Wendy
    It was situational. We had been playing at the same table for a number of hours and I belived that he was capable of being pushed off top pair here as long as i followed up with a river bet. I hate to use an "lol live read" as my defense but that was the trend i had saw in his play. His tempo on the turn call just screamed Ad to me and i went with it.
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