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SO #64 A Real Look At Low Stakes NL

BartBart Posts: 6,072AdministratorLeadPro
edited December 2014 in Crush Live Poker podcast
This week Bart takes a good look at what it takes to be a good player at low stakes games. Often times tables like this can be tough to beat over the long term because of the rake but if you live in an area with a lower cost of living it is possible to grind out a bankroll.

http://www.crushlivepoker.com/podcasts/a-real-look-at-low-stakes-nl

Comments

  • Hurtsogood Posts: 18Subscriber
    Hey Bart,

    I know you're a very busy guy and got a lot going on, but do you think in the future you can find a "quite" place to go for 1hr when doing your podcasts from now on? its real hard (had to turn it off after 15min) to try and listen and concentrate to what you're saying when you've got all kinds of noise going on in the background...this is not the first one either. from David C one where a dog is barking and baby crying non stop, to the one you did 2-3wks back in Macau. its very frustrating and painful to try and listen, while trying to learn....can we try to be a little more professional in the future please.

    Thanks and Happy New Year!

    Be Well
  • Hurtsogood Posts: 18Subscriber
    btw, that was a clp vid that dc did not a podcast. my bad.
  • JamesSuh Posts: 320Subscriber
    Anyone else having trouble downloading? It won't let me sign in on itunes. It also says here that my Subscription isn't activated.
  • BartBart Posts: 6,072AdministratorLeadPro
    JamesSuh said

    Anyone else having trouble downloading? It won't let me sign in on itunes. It also says here that my Subscription isn't activated.
    Hey James,

    This is an individual issue with your specific account expiring. I have sent you an email.

    Bart
  • BartBart Posts: 6,072AdministratorLeadPro
    Hurtsogood said

    Hey Bart,

    I know you're a very busy guy and got a lot going on, but do you think in the future you can find a "quite" place to go for 1hr when doing your podcasts from now on? its real hard (had to turn it off after 15min) to try and listen and concentrate to what you're saying when you've got all kinds of noise going on in the background...this is not the first one either. from David C one where a dog is barking and baby crying non stop, to the one you did 2-3wks back in Macau. its very frustrating and painful to try and listen, while trying to learn....can we try to be a little more professional in the future please.

    Thanks and Happy New Year!

    Be Well
    Hey Hurts,

    I apologize for the background noise. I recorded the episode in an airport but I have done that half a dozen times before. I use a headset so the background noise really shouldn't be that significant. I also listened back to the episode and although I was a little soft didn't really hear the noise. What about other people?

    Bart
  • C_818 Posts: 11Subscriber
    I thought episode was fine,with little or no background noise
  • Hurtsogood Posts: 18Subscriber
    Bart said
    Hurtsogood said

    Hey Bart,

    I know you're a very busy guy and got a lot going on, but do you think in the future you can find a "quite" place to go for 1hr when doing your podcasts from now on? its real hard (had to turn it off after 15min) to try and listen and concentrate to what you're saying when you've got all kinds of noise going on in the background...this is not the first one either. from David C one where a dog is barking and baby crying non stop, to the one you did 2-3wks back in Macau. its very frustrating and painful to try and listen, while trying to learn....can we try to be a little more professional in the future please.

    Thanks and Happy New Year!

    Be Well
    Hey Hurts,

    I apologize for the background noise. I recorded the episode in an airport but I have done that half a dozen times before. I use a headset so the background noise really shouldn't be that significant. I also listened back to the episode and although I was a little soft didn't really hear the noise. What about other people?

    Bart
    Hey Bart,

    Its possible that i over reacted a little bit, and i hope i didnt sound too harsh. i personally get high value from all your content and im looking to start 2014 on a pssitive note.

    Keep up the good work and i hope you and everyone have a healthy and prosperous 2014.

    Be Well
  • BartBart Posts: 6,072AdministratorLeadPro
    No worries,

    I appreciate the your warm words. But, I am trying to get to the bottom of why the podcast sound quality might not have been good this week. What exactly did you hear in the background?

    Bart
  • Hurtsogood Posts: 18Subscriber
    Bart said

    No worries,

    I appreciate the your warm words. But, I am trying to get to the bottom of why the podcast sound quality might not have been good this week. What exactly did you hear in the background?

    Bart
    Hey Bart,

    Happy New Year!

    Its tough to pinpoint exactly what i heard in the background. I usually listen to your podcasts late at night with my headphones, so things might have sounded amplified to me. so, if i could here your voice at say at 90%, the background noise was at maybe only at 10%, but it sounded like you were in a public place with some noise and chatter going on, maybe voices coming over an intercom too?
  • BartBart Posts: 6,072AdministratorLeadPro
    Yeah,

    I was in an airport and the intercom where flights being called. I just had a listen back again and I really don't think the sound quality is bad.

    Bart
  • Sean777 Posts: 356Subscriber
    Hey Bart, I just listened to the podcast, and I was the guy with the forum post re: live no-limit being profitable.

    I think you got the gist of my post correctly, but one thing I should correct is that the 1-2 game in Cherokee, NC is a special beast. It is played on the Poker Tek tables, so you're not tipping the dealers anything(no dealers), the max buyin is $500, and you are getting around 40-45 hands per hour, on average.

    These difference obviously account for the increased win rate. I still fully believe, and I have many hundreds(not yet thousands) of hours of proof, that $1-2 NL is beatable, for a good player who can also beat 2-5, for around $20/hour. It is insanely boring though, and patience is necessary.
  • floppedawheel Posts: 1,063Subscriber
    Sean777 said

    Hey Bart, I just listened to the podcast, and I was the guy with the forum post re: live no-limit being profitable.

    I think you got the gist of my post correctly, but one thing I should correct is that the 1-2 game in Cherokee, NC is a special beast. It is played on the Poker Tek tables, so you're not tipping the dealers anything(no dealers), the max buyin is $500, and you are getting around 40-45 hands per hour, on average.

    These difference obviously account for the increased win rate. I still fully believe, and I have many hundreds(not yet thousands) of hours of proof, that $1-2 NL is beatable, for a good player who can also beat 2-5, for around $20/hour. It is insanely boring though, and patience is necessary.
    hey, man. i know this is directed to bart, but just as a fellow poster, i almost can't believe you'd write such a detailed post about the possible win rates at 1/2 without mentioning your game is played deep, without dealer tips, at AT LEAST 50% more hands per hour.... if that were a standard 1/2 game the WR would probably be somewhere in the 15-16/hour range. so the whole scheme of making a living off 1/2 in that case has more to do with the idiosyncrasies of your exact game than cost of living.

    thanks a ton for clarifying.... you might want to an add an edit to your original post so that people don't read such an authoritative-sounding post without those crucial facts....

    in the end, though -- hah -- i probably do agree with you that you can win 20 or so an hour at 1/2 if you want to live on the super cheap.... my 1/2 rate before moving to 2/5 -- a little over 300 hours -- was around 22/hour. i wouldn't want to have to live that cheaply, though, and it would take forever and i think the drudgery might lead to some tilting issues, further complicating the climb....

    sorry to butt in -- it's just that we posters have to put a certain amount of faith in what we read by other CLP posters, and i was kinda stunned....
  • floppedawheel Posts: 1,063Subscriber
    Bart said

    Yeah,

    I was in an airport and the intercom where flights being called. I just had a listen back again and I really don't think the sound quality is bad.

    Bart
    just fyi i thought it was fine..... you spoke a little more quietly but i had no issues hearing it. just turned it up a little louder.... and the deal with david c. and the background noise. i wasn't bothered by it. from what i remember it was fleeting and if he's recording at home that's gonna happen occasionally. maybe my tolerance is higher but i was like, 'ah, whatev.... damn this guy is smart about poker....'
  • JCW Posts: 591Subscriber
    I haven't listened to this podcast but one audio problem I have found in several episodes is when you do interviews. Many times one person is too low while the other is high. Ed Miller comes to mind right away.

    Do you ever record these on different audio tracks? If you do, it is a VERY easy fix only taking a moments. Just adjust the db +/- on the tracks until you get a good balance.

    Also once in a while, your music comes in too strong. Another very simple fix.
  • JasonShoulders Posts: 8Subscriber
    I wanted to chime in on the low stakes game viability discussion. I've heard Bart and Limon mention many times that playing $1/$2 in LA is suicide with the rake and I've always just assumed that was an LA specific anomaly because of their rake structure. Generally speaking, I play $1/$2 and $1/$3 live because my "live bankroll" dictates it and because those are usually juicy, profitable games. I typically "game select" in the sense that I try to go to casinos during promotional events like the WSOP. For example, in Tunica, there may be just a handful of cash games going on at any random casino at any random time of year, but during the WSOP, there are so many games going on at Harrah's where the WSOP is hosted, they have to put extra tables outside the poker room near slot machines. I'm told the Horeshoe also has a healthy selection then, too. More games almost always means juicy games from my experience. Plus I "table select" too trying to find the best games. I've found in this environment, a competent player can certainly "build a bankroll", although it's obviously slower as promotional events don't happen every week. And, even if it's not a promotional week, a good player should still be able to make money, but the hourly probably won't be as good as when the games are better obviously.

    But, the higher level point that Bart and Limon make generally stays the same: you play those low level games with a day job and other options because the money you make will likely be somewhere in the $10 to $30 per hour range and you need pretty much ALL that money to build up a bankroll for $2/$5 - which will be at LEAST $15,000 and more likely $20,000 to $30,000 if your $2/$5 games play deep. So, you need money to eat and pay rent with.
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