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When EVERYONE calls preflop with a SPR of 1-2

wildncrazyguywildncrazyguy Posts: 420Subscriber
There's a local Omaha game where you would think I would want to play at because the players are terrible but I dont and here's why: EVERYONE calls preflop with an SPR of 1-2. Its a 1-2 PLO game with a max buy in of $300 to start. 9 time out of 10 theres a straddle for $10 and someone raises to $35 and EVERYONE calls. Now the pot is $315 with everyone having less than a pot size bet. Now as the game goes on people keep rebuying so people end up with around $600-$1000 in front of them with the same thing going on. Many people have $300 in front of them cause thats the max rebuy amount. So most all hands are a raise with EVERYONE (and I'm not exaggerating) calling preflop with even the deepest stacks having an SPR of just over 2. I got it in with my stack ahead every time but I'm not fairing well because I'm up against 8 people going to the flop and i will get a least 2 callers. On hand was QQxx double suited losing to 4472r who got a set with his 4s and the other I got it in with AKJ10 single suited and lost to 557K who caught a set.

In this situation going up against 8 people to the flop this just seems like Bingo to me. I'm thinking why do I want to play this game of Bingo with such high variance and no skill when I can make money playing Holdem most of the time using my skill?

What do you guys think?

Comments

  • WackabrewWackabrew Posts: 400Subscriber
    Holy shit this game sounds amazing. If you are getting it in good, then there's nothing to worry about. Yes, the equities run closer, but in the long run I'll take getting it in 60/40 every day of the week.

    It would help to get some of the hand histories that you mentioned above though to make sure that you are indeed getting it in good. C-Betting as a bluff should be essentially non-existent in PLO. For example in the hand where you had double suited Queens, what was the flop and did you just open ship? That would be a mistake unless the flop was Qxx. Did you call off when 4472 shipped it? Again, would be a mistake unless you had some backup to go with your pair. Or did you manage to get it in pre-flop against 4472? In that case we are a MASSIVE favorite.
  • wildncrazyguywildncrazyguy Posts: 420Subscriber
    I'm not 60/40 when I'm up against 8 people going to the flop. AAKKss I'm guessing is less than 30% all in when up against 8 others (not sure but guessing). That's my point. If I'm 30% to win and I'm getting 5-1 than yes in the long run I'll make money but it gets real expensive when you keep missing the flop after putting almost a 1/4 of your stack in to see a flop with a good hand.

    That QQ hand is one where I raised and he shipped and few people called and I called. Not really a good example because this was a time I was up again only 3 others. Most of the time I'm up against 8 others.

    Like I said though you're equity against 8 others isn't that good no matter what you have and if you keep missing the flop like most of the time you do than you run down. Even if you have AAxx double suited unless you catch the flush draw or an ace you're folding against 8 people. YOu can put it in but when no one folds good luck holding.

    Like I said not sure how this is a good idea playing this when it can get expensive and its more like Bingo than poker.
  • chilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    Pot limit games are designed to force post flop play. Punish them with nut draws and/or nut made hands. Keep pots small pre and punish post. Don't 3 bet double suited aces vs 2 or more players. Hands I would consider 3betting for value are like KQJTds, QJT9ds, where u can really dominate/freeroll hands that will get in stacks vs u post flop.
    Getting a full stack in pre vs multiple players is bingo. And don't bluff ever.
  • chilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    Also- play tight.
  • AesahAesah Posts: 1,048Pro
    Honestly it sounds like you know what to do, it's just a bankroll issue
  • AesahAesah Posts: 1,048Pro
    If you would rather have a free $100 than get it in with 20% equity 8 ways for $200 each then you're right, you probably shouldn't play that game.
  • ScottyScotty Posts: 48Subscriber
    This game sounds super awesome and easy. Just play tight preflop and get in AAxx by 3betting when you can. Try to see flops with hands that can make the nuts, then hit the nuts and get paid off by bad players. You cant use skill to bluff in this kind of game but you can use skill to wait for good hands and then get paid off.
  • WackabrewWackabrew Posts: 400Subscriber
    What Aesah said. This is the type of game that you can print money sitting in if your bankroll is deep enough.

    Back to the QQxxds hand - I would not be calling off a ship there even getting ~4/1. There are too many hands that dominate us, and we should never be ahead of most people's get it in pre range. That said, it matters what our other two cards are though. Do we have QQJTds? Or do we have QQ46? At least in the first example we can flop a small wrap if the board comes 89x. In either example we have the non-nut FD, which is always dangerous in a game like this.

    I am also trying to get this straight in my head...are you saying that nearly every hand is an 8 way all-in for ~200-300? Or is every hand 8 ways for ~35? If the first example, It'll be a really boring game for you, and you should be waiting for ultra premium hands (AAKKds, KQJTds, AAJTds etc) and getting it in. Nearly everything else is a fold. If it is the second, then you can open up your range a little bit, but you have to be disciplined enough to fold if you dont flop a nut wrap or made hand with a re-draw to the nuts or near nuts.
  • khalwatkhalwat Posts: 997Subscriber
    This game sounds super awesome and easy. Just play tight preflop and get in AAxx by 3betting when you can. Try to see flops with hands that can make the nuts, then hit the nuts and get paid off by bad players. You cant use skill to bluff in this kind of game but you can use skill to wait for good hands and then get paid off.
    Exactly this. Tighten up, 3-bet jam premiums, ship flops... and run good.
  • wildncrazyguywildncrazyguy Posts: 420Subscriber
    Its not a backroll issue Asiah - well maybe -its the fact that like you said I am getting it in 20% against 8 people and rebuy rebuy rebuy because I am only 20%. Since everyone is short it seems like Bingo and hope. As far as QQxx double suited youre wrong whakabrew as far as thing game goes. I'm ahead of his 3 betting range. Like I said these are terrible players. He flipped over 44 10 7 - some garbage like that. Thing i I could rebuy 5 times and hope I win playing Bingo or I could grind at holdem and pretty much be guaranteed a profit vs the players I'm playing against. Thats my point - seem slike the latter is smarter in that case.
  • Derek Posts: 44Subscriber
    Sounds like an amazing game. Just can't let yourself try and see every flop like everyone else is.
    Know it can be tuff to tighten up some when you see all that $$$ flying around the table but if you select better hands to get your $ in with than your opponents you will come out ahead.
  • AesahAesah Posts: 1,048Pro
    Its not a backroll issue Asiah - well maybe -its the fact that like you said I am getting it in 20% against 8 people and rebuy rebuy rebuy because I am only 20%. Since everyone is short it seems like Bingo and hope. As far as QQxx double suited youre wrong whakabrew as far as thing game goes. I'm ahead of his 3 betting range. Like I said these are terrible players. He flipped over 44 10 7 - some garbage like that. Thing i I could rebuy 5 times and hope I win playing Bingo or I could grind at holdem and pretty much be guaranteed a profit vs the players I'm playing against. Thats my point - seem slike the latter is smarter in that case.
    No offense but this post reads to me like "it's not a bankroll issue, it's a bankroll issue". Literally 100% of every single one of your posts here point to playing in that game EXCEPT for the high variance part.

    I think you should consider what I mentioned earlier and come up with an honest answer. Would you rather get a $200 stack in with 20% 8-ways or find a $100 bill on the street. I could be wrong, but I get the impression you'd rather have the latter. That's purely a bankroll issue.

    Using myself as an example, I would take the former, but when the money gets too big it becomes a bankroll issue- for example I would rather find $10,000 on the ground than get a $20,000 stack in 8-ways with 20% equity.
  • WackabrewWackabrew Posts: 400Subscriber
    Its not a backroll issue Asiah - well maybe -its the fact that like you said I am getting it in 20% against 8 people and rebuy rebuy rebuy because I am only 20%. Since everyone is short it seems like Bingo and hope. As far as QQxx double suited youre wrong whakabrew as far as thing game goes. I'm ahead of his 3 betting range. Like I said these are terrible players. He flipped over 44 10 7 - some garbage like that. Thing i I could rebuy 5 times and hope I win playing Bingo or I could grind at holdem and pretty much be guaranteed a profit vs the players I'm playing against. Thats my point - seem slike the latter is smarter in that case.
    You may be ahead of ONE guys 3 betting range with QQxx, but are you ahead of his range plus the ranges of two over callers? Regardless, to your point of being able to make a guaranteed profit playing hold 'em: Getting it in with 20% equity 9 ways IS guaranteed profit. Your EV is +160 for every $1,000.
  • reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,145Subscriber
    Honestly it sounds like you know what to do, it's just a bankroll issue
    Might also be a tilt issue. One thing I'm learning as I transition from NLHE is the beats hurt worse because they come much more frequently and when you get beat, you've likely shoveled your entire stack in the middle.

    So, yeah, bankroll issue. But also maybe a tilt/mindset issue.

  • BradleyT Posts: 621SubscriberProfessional
    What you have to understand is that even with a hand like AAxx double suited when you get it in against 5 opponents (typical in my games too) you're going to lose 7 out of 10 times.

    So we each put in $100 and the pot is $600.
    Lose 7 = -$700
    Win 3 = +$1500
    Net = +$800 or $80 per hand

    Sure as shit you can easily lose the first 10 times you do that. Or you can run like god and win the first 6 times you do that. Regardless though it's basically printing money.
  • wildncrazyguywildncrazyguy Posts: 420Subscriber
    What you have to understand is that even with a hand like AAxx double suited when you get it in against 5 opponents (typical in my games too) you're going to lose 7 out of 10 times.

    So we each put in $100 and the pot is $600.
    Lose 7 = -$700
    Win 3 = +$1500
    Net = +$800 or $80 per hand

    Sure as shit you can easily lose the first 10 times you do that. Or you can run like god and win the first 6 times you do that. Regardless though it's basically printing money.
    Not a tilt issue and yes QQds is way ahead of 2 people's range in this game. In response to Bradley's comment yes you are right - good post btw - its just that since I can easily lose 10 times in a row do I want to do that when I don't have that kindve variance playing no limit holdem? I guess that's my point.
  • OminousCowOminousCow Posts: 702Subscriber
    edited January 2014
    I'll echo what everyone else is saying. If it's not a bankroll issue and not a tilt/mental game issue, what is the problem? Barring external factors, you should be ecstatic to be getting your money in in these spots, even if you happen to lose in the short term.

    I suppose if you are playing mainly for enjoyment rather than profit, then this game is not for you.
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