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Algorithmically determining non-equity aspects of hands

OminousCowOminousCow Posts: 702Subscriber
edited January 2014 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Random thought: have you guys thought about algorithmically determining attributes of hands beyond their simple hot/cold equity?

It seems like you could get an approximate measure of hand playability by calculating the distribution of equity against a range on different types of board run outs. Hands that have good playability would be those that have high equity against the range in spots where the player is also likely to think that they have good equity (i.e. if you make a pair you have good equity, if you don't make a pair you have poor equity)

Hands that flop well would be those that tend to maintain equity against ranges on a wide range of boards. The prototypical example of this would be hands like JTs.

Hands like small pairs don't flop well, but have good playability by these definitions.


  • NicholasK Posts: 237Member
    Villain's ranges are not defined and so I wouldn't think this would be useful as a general exercise. Learning to hand read and then adjusting to their play is the name of the game.

    Ex: I play with one player A that only calls with PP, and only/always raises with A Broadway, he plays fit or fold postflop. Player B in the same game will always raise 58 and 69(suited or not) and will overplay bottom pair on a straightening board. An extreme example of how the hand A10 would have vastly different equities vs my opponents range depending on who's in the hand.
  • OminousCowOminousCow Posts: 702Subscriber
    These attributes would be calculated against a range in the same way that you can plug ranges in to equity calculators now.
  • 5DollarShake Posts: 64Subscriber
    Can equity calculators accurately define a villains bluffing frequency?

    Isn't a villans range in certain positions only guesswork anyways?

    I don't know but I assume you can only assume he would make certain moves in certain spots, but nothing is for certain?

    Interesting thought tho.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,085Subscriber

    I think its highly dependent on the nature of the player. That said I dont think I am going to worry about spending any real effort trying to quantify this at this point in my poker life. I have enough on my plate just trying to keep track of the pot and everything else..

    ww :wink:
  • OminousCowOminousCow Posts: 702Subscriber
    This would definitely not be perfect. It has some of the same flaws that normal equity calculators have in that we don't know how the villain will play different parts of his or her range. It would help to judge for instance what good board textures are to check-raise all in as a function of your hand and your read of the villain's cbetting range or which hands with given equity against the villain's range are better to play aggressively or call with.
  • PhulHouze Posts: 200Member
    I think this would be a good exercise for 'math' players to understand things that are usually more in the realm of 'feel players.' Could be tough to sit and do at the table, but it strikes me as something you could theoretically make a chart of. Once upon a time, Mike Caro went nuts making all kids of hand charts that seemed like they involved crazy math at the time, but nowadays a lot of the stuff he looked at is part of most good players' standard repertoire of poker math facts.

    I could also see this as a useful approach for creating poker programs that can compete against humans.
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