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2 Not Too Complex Spots

YoungGrinder Posts: 210Subscriber
edited February 2014 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Hand 1

Villain 1: REC Fish. Quite loose preflop and somewhat postflop. He tends to bet his made hands (overpairs, TPTK, etc.) 
I don't think he would fast-play the nut flush (Covers)

Villain 2: REC Player. Has played pretty tight. Haven't seen him play much postflop ($400)

Hero: Losing image. Tight and Aggressive though in the hands I've played. V1 knows I'm into the game super deep. V2 hasn't been at the table long enough to know I'm losing ($600)

V2 limps. V1 raises to 25 in MP. Hero calls in the SB with 7h7d. V2 calls.
Flop 8c 5c 2c ($75)
Checks around. 
Turn 8 ($75)
Hero leads for $45. 

Is this bet alright or spew? I feel I can get called by some high clubs as well as protect my equity in the pot. 


Hand 2:

Villain is Villain 2 from previous hand. 
Still appears to be fairly tight. Not playing too many hands although he's still only been here a couple orbits. ($360)

Hero has losing image to villain now since H1 comes before H2, and I lost H1 about an orbit before.

Hero raises in UTG+2 to 30 over a BTN straddle with KhJh.
V calls in MP.

Flop QJ4 ($65)
Hero leads $35. I think I can definitely get called by a couple draws as well as a J.
V calls.

Turn J ($135)
Hero leads $105. V raises to $210.
Hero moves in for about $275 total.

I feel like this spot is pretty standard with KJ but if we have J8 or J9 is this a fold to the min-raise?

Comments

  • Sean777 Posts: 356Subscriber
    I'd rather bet the flop than the turn in hand 1, we would have much more information. I don't mind betting the turn either though, you probably have the best hand.


    In Hand 2: I don't see why you'd ever be raising J8 or J9 from UTG+2 ever, or even calling with it in most scenarios. I don't know if that's really worth discussing, it would be a totally different spot and a totally different hand. 

    If I had JTs instead of KJ, I still probably call off, you only have like $175 after you bet the turn, and folding trips here is way too tight.
  • YoungGrinder Posts: 210Subscriber
    Sean777 said:
    I'd rather bet the flop than the turn in hand 1, we would have much more information. I don't mind betting the turn either though, you probably have the best hand.


    In Hand 2: I don't see why you'd ever be raising J8 or J9 from UTG+2 ever, or even calling with it in most scenarios. I don't know if that's really worth discussing, it would be a totally different spot and a totally different hand. 

    If I had JTs instead of KJ, I still probably call off, you only have like $175 after you bet the turn, and folding trips here is way too tight.


    On Hand 2, you are right I would never have those hands here but I was just wondering thoughts if I hypothetically somehow tilt raised light UTG+2.
    Thanks for the thoughts.
  • DBW Posts: 40Subscriber
    I think H1 is fine leading flop or turn although I agree with Sean that leading flop is better.

    In general, when I am stuck I typically tighten up especially OOP.  Not sure I am opening KJs UTG+2 depending on game flow and players.  With a losing image you just aren't going to get enough credit on most flops.  Not being the pre-flop police but would rather have a winning image and stop the bleeding so I would probably toss that pre-flop.

    Now that you are where you are in H2 you have to ship it.
  • NicholasK Posts: 237Member
    YoungGrinder said:
    Hand 1
    ...
    V2 limps. V1 raises to 25 in MP. Hero calls in the SB with 7h7d. V2 calls.
    Flop 8c 5c 2c ($75)
    Checks around. 
    Turn 8 ($75)
    Hero leads for $45. 

    Is this bet alright or spew? I feel I can get called by some high clubs as well as protect my equity in the pot. 
     
    What was your plan on the flop? Was it an auto check to the raiser? I think had you thought about it you would have realized this was a good flop for 7s and that checking would be to to induce a bet from PFR, A c/r would be overplaying your hand and the neither player sounds like they'd be likely to be bluffing you so check/calling as a bluff catcher would be horrible. I'd have donked out hoping to get called by overs and would probably be a bet/fold.

    YoungGrinder said:
    Hand 2:
    Hero raises in UTG+2 to 30 over a BTN straddle with KhJh.
    V calls in MP.

    Flop QJ4 ($65)
    Hero leads $35. I think I can definitely get called by a couple draws as well as a J.
    V calls.

    Turn J ($135)
    Hero leads $105. V raises to $210.
    Hero moves in for about $275 total.

    I feel like this spot is pretty standard with KJ but if we have J8 or J9 is this a fold to the min-raise?




    Frankly this seems a bit loose for an effective UTG open...but whatever. If I'm playing this, I'm C-betting the flop. What are the suits? It makes a huge difference if there's a front or backdoor flush. I'm probably still playing for stacks here though.
  • YoungGrinder Posts: 210Subscriber
    Thanks Nich

    H1 was a basic auto check. Its a leak of mine I've been having trouble breaking as I rarely even look at the board and just auto check. Thanks for pointing it out to me again especially against a REC player who isn't going to CBET such a board often.

    H2 the open was probably a little light but I noticed 3 people behind me had already checked out so I figured it wasn't too bad. The flop was rainbow so there wasn't much a draw he could be pushing me with.
  • NicholasK Posts: 237Member
    YoungGrinder said:Thanks Nich

    H1 was a basic auto check. Its a leak of mine I've been having trouble breaking as I rarely even look at the board and just auto check. Thanks for pointing it out to me again especially against a REC player who isn't going to CBET such a board often.

    H2 the open was probably a little light but I noticed 3 people behind me had already checked out so I figured it wasn't too bad. The flop was rainbow so there wasn't much a draw he could be pushing me with.




    That's rough. You described V as a "Tight Rec" so I don't think he's raising the turn as a bluff. Perhaps some huge combo draws might raise but even that has to be discounted with this player profile. What hands might he be willing to shove for value that he might call your raise pre.
    You Beat:
     Possibly 10Js, AA, KK, AQ,KQ
    Beats you
    QQ,AJ,QJ
    Tie:
    KJ 

    I think a hand like KK AA or QQ might play it like this but with the flat call pre I'd discount those hands a bit. Perhaps not all the way with the straddle yet to act pre. 

    Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

      36,630  games     0.000 secs     7,326,000  games/sec

    Board: Qh Jd 4c
    Dead:  

    equity win tie      pots won pots tied
    Hand 0: 26.747%   19.90% 06.85%          7290     2507.50   { KhJh }
    Hand 1: 73.253%   66.41% 06.85%         24325     2507.50   { AcAd, AcAs, AdAh, AhAs, KcKd, KcKs, KdKs, QcQd, QcQs, QdQs, AcQc, AsQs, KcQc, KdQd, KcJc, KsJs, QcJc, QsJs, JcTc, JsTs, AcQd, AdQc, AhQc, AhQd, AsQc, AsQd, KcQs, KdQc, KdQs, KhQc, KhQs, KsQc, KcJs, KdJc, KdJh, KsJc, KsJh, QcJs, QdJc, QdJs, QhJc, QhJs, QsJc }

    Pot $450/$105 to call, it's close...very close and I don't think the guy is raise/folding the turn ever so I'd push too. 
  • OminousCowOminousCow Posts: 702Subscriber
    edited February 2014
    Looks like you forgot the turn card in the equity calculation. On the turn hero is well ahead of the range you outlined on the flop. I would discount QJ and 444 due to many villains raising the flop a good chunk of the time with them, which leaves AJ as the single most likely hand that both played this way and beats the hero.
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