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I flop a flush in blind vs blind and hate life

UntreatableFPS Posts: 1,004Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Prime example of why having a weak image sucks. I was about to leave this game, but I already ordered food from the chip runner and paid with my comps, so I thought I would wait for him to bring it first.

I was having one of those sessions in which I don't flop much, and when I finally flop one pair, I have to fold it. Lost several small-medium pots and topped off stack a couple times.

Villain is a backpack kid who I haven't seen before. Seems to be loose-passive pre but plays decently aggressively post

I have about 950 and change effective, villain covers

Everybody folds to villain in SB
Villain limps
Hero checks BB with Th6h

$10 to flop
Flop Qh 5h 4h

Whoo! I have a flush!

Villain checks
Hero bets 10
Villain raises to 40
Hero calls

90 to turn
Turn 3h
Villain checks
Hero bets 65
Villain raises to 165

I'm already a little unhappy with the double C/R here but decide to call with what might be the best hand. And if anything, I have a straight flush draw.

Hero calls

420 to river
River is Ks
Villain throws enough $100 bills in the pot to cover me

This bet is a pretty big overbet...
Approximately 700 into 400

The annoying part is, I've been a little weak and shown that I fold against aggression. The way I played the hand, it looks like I have a set, so maybe he's trying to scare a set away with a massive overbet.

Would he bet anything but a straight flush for value this way? Of course, if an ordinary nut flush is in his value range, that makes it an easier fold. So does this mean either straight flush or bluff? Which means he pretty much has to have Ah2h because I have the 6h?

Should having the 6h for blocker value influence this river decision?

Comments

  • Claire,

    I assume that the 3c is 3h? You probably should edit that. Funny, I'm trying to think what to do if it really was the 3c on the turn. Double check raises are so strong but you have kind of under-repped your hand. Most players in the pool would just get in a flush probably on the turn. So I would call that river off--he may have a lesser value hand.

    With the actual turn card obviously your hand is the same as the K hi flush, just a bluff catcher. Usually massive overbets like this mean the nuts and I doubt that he doesn't at least have the Ah--because obviously you could easily have the Ah. I rarely ever see someone bluff a stack into a four flush when they don't have it.

    Bart
  • UntreatableFPS Posts: 1,004Subscriber
    Oh yeah, the turn was a 3h. There's no edit option for the original post.

    But the point I was trying to make from the river bet was that I don't think this villain would ship almost 2X the pot with just the nut flush without thinking very much if there was a straight flush on the board, which more likely makes it a call than if he bet 3/4 pot to pot. Thoughts?
  • Claire said

    Oh yeah, the turn was a 3h. There's no edit option for the original post.

    But the point I was trying to make from the river bet was that I don't think this villain would ship almost 2X the pot with just the nut flush without thinking very much if there was a straight flush on the board, which more likely makes it a call than if he bet 3/4 pot to pot. Thoughts?
    I've edited it to the 3h. I really think you are giving this guy too much credit. There is a very good chance that he didnt even notice the straight flush. Like I said before this is one of the most uncommon spots for a guy to bluff becuase it is very easy for you to have the perceived nuts (Ah). A lot different then another hand where the nuts could be a higher set, quads, straight, higher boat etc.

    Bart
  • UntreatableFPS Posts: 1,004Subscriber
    Ahh, maybe I'm thinking too hard now.
    At the time, I pretty much snap folded, because I said I was probably folding the river if I had anything but a straight flush. And later I convinced myself he was bullying because I was playing weak earlier.
  • SkinnybrownSkinnybrown Posts: 286Member
    Bart said

    I assume that the 3c is 3h? You probably should edit that. Funny, I'm trying to think what to do if it really was the 3c on the turn. Double check raises are so strong but you have kind of under-repped your hand. Most players in the pool would just get in a flush probably on the turn. So I would call that river off--he may have a lesser value hand.

    Bart
    Bart,

    If the turn was the 3c and the river was the Ks you would call the c/r on the turn and call the over bet shove on the river?

    Claire,

    You are definitely over-thinking this hand. This is not a spot villain is going to overbet bluff ever.
  • Skinnybrown said
    Bart said

    I assume that the 3c is 3h? You probably should edit that. Funny, I'm trying to think what to do if it really was the 3c on the turn. Double check raises are so strong but you have kind of under-repped your hand. Most players in the pool would just get in a flush probably on the turn. So I would call that river off--he may have a lesser value hand.

    Bart
    Bart,

    If the turn was the 3c and the river was the Ks you would call the c/r on the turn and call the over bet shove on the river?

    Claire,

    You are definitely over-thinking this hand. This is not a spot villain is going to overbet bluff ever.
    Not necessarily. I think it would be situation dependent. Because most people at that level would get in a flush on an earlier street he may be making that play with a lesser value hand. It is situation and player dependent.

    Bart
  • SkinnybrownSkinnybrown Posts: 286Member
    Bart said
    Skinnybrown said
    Bart said

    I assume that the 3c is 3h? You probably should edit that. Funny, I'm trying to think what to do if it really was the 3c on the turn. Double check raises are so strong but you have kind of under-repped your hand. Most players in the pool would just get in a flush probably on the turn. So I would call that river off--he may have a lesser value hand.

    Bart
    Bart,

    If the turn was the 3c and the river was the Ks you would call the c/r on the turn and call the over bet shove on the river?

    Not necessarily. I think it would be situation dependent. Because most people at that level would get in a flush on an earlier street he may be making that play with a lesser value hand. It is situation and player dependent.

    Bart
    It took me 5 minutes to understand that when you said "Because most people at that level would get in a flush on an earlier street" that you meant most players in Claire's position and not in the villains position. I thought I was on the set of Inception 2 for a second.

    That is a great point and thinking about how typical players in the player pool play situations is very helpful when making our own decisions.
  • whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    Claire, I'd forget about the straight flush, nobody on that level would consider that hand in villains shoes. Also, you are not deep enough where it would make a significant difference. Just ask yourself if
    a) villain is more likely to bully you around (does he view you so weak-tight that he'd expect you to fold a big part of your range on the river? has he seen you make big laydowns? has he been very aggro vs. you before?), or
    b) if he is more likely to expect a call from you?
    What do you think is the reason he chose such a large betsize? Have you seen him do this before?
    Also, would villain in your shoes raise the flush on the flop/turn?
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