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QQ w/110 bb stack against an over raise??? Perils of an awkward stack size

FrederickWalton Posts: 3Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
I started the hand with $220 in a 1/2 game and there are 3 limpers and a decent player on the button raises to $31 . I have two black queens and tank fold out of the BB. After running a range of TT+, AKs, AQs, & AKo vs. QQ I am 53.1%. Against JJ+, AKs, AQs, & AKo vs. QQ I am 48.3%. Is this ever a spot that I can 3 bet fold for $85???

2/5 Level: Same hand $550 deep, and after 3 limpers the raise is $75. If flatting is a viable option would it also be correct to flat at the 1/2 level?
Is 3 bet folding for $175 more correct due to the amount of money in play?

Is this a neutral EV spot which makes folding ok??

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  • whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    What reads do you have about the button? It's difficult to make a reasonable decision without ANY reads.

    How long have you been playing with him? Have you seen any hands from him? How loose/tight is he, how aggressive/passive? How does he look? How does he handle chips, how does his stack look like,.....?
    What's your image? How were people reacting to you since you have been at the table?
    There's always a lot of information out there, even if you just came to the table.

    In a vacuum, I'd say that bet/folding is the worst option. Either fold directly (would require some specific reads that he is VERY tight), 3bet/call (of course you don't love getting 4bet, but given the stack sizes you generally have to call it of with QQ), or directly shove yourself (even if you are only getting called by better, it should be more EV than bet/folding).
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    In this spot I like to min threebet.. In my games many players in the smaller games just shove with KK and AA but will call or fold the rest of their range.. You can get it heads up and if they call you know you are good. If they shove you just fold.. So you can make it 60.. and if he shoves.. just fold..

    Now if you think no one else is going to call the big raise you can flat and play it like a bluff catcher.. Again a lot of players raise with any big pair 99+ this way and you can simply ch call any flop without say A and K both on board.. So the action could go like this.

    Villain raises to 31 .. you call.. everyone else folds.. Pot $65-67...

    Flop comes 6 3 9 rainbow (or even better with 2 cards to flush)..

    You check ..Villain bets.. 60... if you call pot will have just shy of 200.. and you will have 220-31-60=$129.. You just check shove the turn.. or just shove the turn whatever you like..

    You are basically going to value own anyone with AK or the like that is trying to bluff you off the pot as well as pairs smaller than yours.. You will get owned by KK and AA but that is only two hands. If you think Villain will bet to "protect" basically his entire range then I really like the flat line and call off..

    You would have lost your stack to KK and AA but you get the stacks of everyone else ..All the other hands would probably fold to your threebet.. Those happen much much more often..

  • LarryLido Posts: 52Member
    You need to know your Villains tendencies better, or communicate how they player better to this forum so solid advice can be given. $31 PF is huge!! Has he been PF raising huge like this often? Is he aggressive? Young? Old? Hoodie? Is he raising a lot of hands PF? To how much? Have u seen any of his cards when he raised? How much did he raise to with those cards? Was he raising over limpers then?

    Without knowing stuff like this, I'm in a vacuum. And in a vacuum this is a fold for me. The average 1/2 player bases his PF raise sizing off the strength of his hand. He's got a big PP hand here most of the time and is afraid of getting sucked out on. Folding was the correct move, now just make sure u never tell anyone in your player pool what you did.
  • whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    Frederick, I feel like your question has not really been answered sufficiently.

    BTW, what's the difference between your 1/2 example and the 2/5 example?

    I think folding pre is a bit weak. Villain would have to be REALLY tight to make this the best play. But I understand your point that 3betting might make him play perfectly (i.e. folding worse and continuing with better). For those reasons, flatting might be the best play. The only caveat I see is that you need at least some basic postflop reads in order to avoid huge mistakes.

    One important tendenciy is villain's cbetting frequency.
    - If he is cbetting with AK, AQ types of hands on dry boards, then I would consider flatting pre and C/R any favorable board. By doing this, you also get it in against AA, KK, but you gain a lot of value against the weaker part of villains range.
    - If he does not cbet unless he hit the board or has an overpair, you can check the flop with the intention of folding to a bet, but leading the turn if he checks behind.
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