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JJ facing a shove on wet board. Felt like a bluff

Ssull33Ssull33 Posts: 25Subscriber
edited March 2014 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
This is hand from a session at Borgata $2/5. Table just started up, only about 7 hands in playing 9 handed.

Villain is a middle-age European man. Of the 7 hands played he has played 4-5 of them. He has limped every pot and called all raises. He has about $700 after winning a decent pot the hand prior. He seems to like big pots and plays aggressively in the short amount of time I've seen.

Hero is a late 20's female. Has not played a hand yet. Is a virtual unknown to the table as she does not play at Borgata often. Stack is at starting max, $500. Image tends to be tight until proven otherwise when people at table don't have a history with her.

$2/5
Villain +2 limps $5
+3 limps $5
Button limps $5
Hero SB raises to $35 with Jd Jh
Villain calls.

Flop: 7d-4h-10d ($82)

Hero bets $60.
Villain calls quickly.

Turn: 2d ($202)

Hero bets $100. I purposely bet smallish here to induce a bluff with the diamond on the turn. I tried to utilize my image as a girl, playing timid, and afraid my overpair was beat by a flush.

Villain raises ALL IN, roughly $305

Hero?

Comments

  • Ssull33Ssull33 Posts: 25Subscriber
    Trying to guide the discussion more towards my turn play. I obviously can't call his shove because I beat him only if he is bluffing or has lower pair. Does action change if I bet $150+ on turn to appear stronger?
  • You said you bet small to induce. He shoves(what you wanted). The question is what hands were you expecting him to have here that are bluffing.

  • Tyrith Posts: 353Subscriber
    If you bet small to induce a bluff, and he shoves, shouldn't you call off? That said, your bet isn't that small, and unless he's turning a AdTx kind of hand into a bluff, his bluff shoving range seems isolated to 98s. Seems like a relatively easy bet/fold here.
  • Dusty Posts: 233Subscriber
    i am not sure with the description of the V we should be bet to inducing on this turn? If we want to bet we need to be willing to call it off I think, otherwise check and reevaluate, or be confident in bet/fold line an amount that makes your b/f correct as described in many of Bart's videos. I am not sure if the Jd really helps us here as lots of V's limp Axss. Being the top card as a diamond, this looks more like a turned flush than a pair + FD picked up on the turn. I would prob c/c or c/f depending on sizing, timing, etc from the V.
  • Stonewalled Posts: 480Subscriber
    Do you have about 33% equity? Is he bluffing that much? That seems like a high percentage, given that you're female and may appear tight, i.e., he's fairly likely to put you on an overpair and will think you can't fold it. While it's possible he may think you'll be scared of the flush and fold, he may not think that at all, and may be worried in any event that you have a high diamond in your hand to go with your overpair. Meh, it's kind of close given your description of him, but I'd probably fold. I note that the Jack of diamonds in your hand makes this more of a case for a call, but still probably fold. I wouldn't really fault a call, though.
    by 1Ssull33
  • Stonewalled Posts: 480Subscriber
    Dusty said:
    otherwise check and reevaluate
    I wouldn't include this as a good option. Loses too much value.
  • eyedunno Posts: 215Subscriber
    I think the plan of betting small to induce is not a good idea on this turn card versus this villain.

    With that being said, here are some things to note:

    1). Even though your $100 bet is smallish in relation to the pot, most bad players will still see $100 as a "big bet".

    2). Villains timing with calling the flop bet looks like a draw to me. When you raise large pre and then bet big on the flop it says you have an over-paid and most villains will think for a little bit before calling with say, AT here...

    3). If villains range is weighted towards draws, then you can actually check this turn and safely fold to a large ($100 or more) size bet. Checking to check/call is not the best plan but if villain has a top pair hand his bet sizing will be more towards the $60-$75 range in general. The worst thing checking does is allows villain to check back a top pair hand that also has a diamond like Qd, Kd, Ad with a T

    4). Although we don't know villains hand, I'd still lean towards his quick flop call as being a draw. So, we can use this info in the future if villain ever raises big on a two-tone flop by weighting hands in that scenario more towards value and less towards draws. Obviously, if you see that specific scenario play out later, take careful note of what hand villain shows down.

    As played, I think this is a fairly easy fold.
    by 1Ssull33
  • Ssull33Ssull33 Posts: 25Subscriber
    edited March 2014
    Great insight here guys. Thanks. The inducer type bet was bad on my end in theory because it muddied the rest of my thought process. He did what I wanted him to do and then I folded so why even induce in the first place?

    I folded the jacks face up and he said "how do you fold that" in a thick euro type accent. I said good bluff and he rolled over the 5h. He could have had a number of 5h Xx hands that would have allowed him to float the flop and make a move....At the time it really did feel like a bluff to take advantage of a somewhat smallish, meak bet on the turn. Turned out to be true. He also later revealed himself to be a huge fish w/ aggro bluffing tendencies and dusted off 3 buy ins. Too bad this hand played out early in the game when I had little info on him.


    Thanks for the help!
  • Stonewalled Posts: 480Subscriber
    edited March 2014
    OP, a few additional comments:

    1. Don't show your hand. Ever. Except ... never.

    2. Go with your reads (meaning the whole picture -- patterns, image, live tells, etc.), and then if it's wrong, analyze why later. You'll learn faster, and develop a trust of your reads.

    3. Try not to be results oriented.
  • DavidTuchman Posts: 786Pro
    Villain is European????? And you folded????? hahahahahahaha .. ok, just kidding (sort of) but in all sincerity,

    European's are even less likely to respect a girl and probably think they can push you around. I have no issue with having a plan...your instinct was to induce. Go with it! I like it....yeah, maybe you'll be wrong, but you're a good poker player. Your instincts are probably more spot on than you realize.

    As for Stonewalled advice to not show...I tend to agree unless you're doing it for a very specific reason and be ready to make adjustments based on your opponents having info on you.
  • AesahAesah Posts: 1,048Pro
    Stonewalled said:
    1. Don't show your hand. Ever. Except ... never.
    in addition to what Dave said, if it induces opponent to show, you can utilize the information better than they can
  • DavidTuchman Posts: 786Pro
    ^^ truth aesah speak
  • TerpHimselfTerpHimself Posts: 291Subscriber
    I agree, you ended up getting some info to use on him later, but keep in mind, if you show you folded an overpair to the table, someone else could very well take a shot at you in the next few pots.

    It took me a while to get comfortable going off of snap judgements early in a session, so if you don't like the prospect of getting it in vs this villain on your first hand, then you can't bet the turn. Otherwise, go with your play. Use the snap judgments he makes towards YOU to your advantage.

    I'm a white, 30 yr old male who looks like he's 18. I forever am going to be viewed as an "internet kid". I wish I had the luxury of chauvinists making plays at me haha. Best of luck.
  • Ssull33Ssull33 Posts: 25Subscriber
    I agree that I had a plan and should've have went with it. I was totally invested in this guy's stereotype as a Euro, aggro type facing a girl he thought he could push around. The big mistake was not following through on my plan. I played this hand a while back and can actually say I learned more from the way I played this as opposed to if I had called/lost or called/won. So there's the +. As for the comments RE: tabling my hand. I rarely show and here I was trying to get him to expose his hand and/or maybe say something that would allow me to get a better read later in the session. Thanks for all the great insight here, guys. Much appreciated.
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