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Free Video: CLP Video No. 287: Home Game Bart Reviews His Splashy At $1-$3 Deep Part 2

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Episode 15: Reverse Pot Odds

StopHammertimeStopHammertime Posts: 81Member
edited November -1 in Crush Live Poker podcast
Hey Bart, I'm listening to this episode and there's the first you hand you discuss that I found interesting. Could you comment a bit on how Mike (I think that was his name) played the hand? You put him on AA/KK and that sounds right. I'm interested in your thoughts on how he played it given who you are (and his familiarity with you), as well as what he should have done if you were just another reg at that level.

Could he ever fold on the river? It seems like it, even with those crazy pot odds he got - no matter what kind of opponent he was playing against.

Comments

  • I think that his bet on the river is definitely questionable. I am very rarely ever a proponent of check calling but if he felt like he wanted to get to showdown somehow then bet calling has to be the worst option. I'm not calling here with AQ or KQ so his sizing I think is pretty poor. Maybe $700-$800 fold would be a better play.

    Bart
  • LarryLido Posts: 52Member
    What's a "Sunday Bluff" Bart?
  • LarryLido said

    What's a "Sunday Bluff" Bart?
    I am at at a loss as to what this means ^^^
  • OminousCowOminousCow Posts: 702Subscriber
    Hey Bart,

    What do you thinking about 3betting the flop on the TT hand against 'Young Man' rather than bet-calling?
  • LarryLido Posts: 52Member
    Bart said
    LarryLido said

    What's a "Sunday Bluff" Bart?
    I am at at a loss as to what this means ^^^
    @ 55:0x "raise you on the come as a SUNDAY (or maybe someday) bluff." But then again I'm notoriously deaf...
  • Andrew Sakai said

    Hey Bart,

    What do you thinking about 3betting the flop on the TT hand against 'Young Man' rather than bet-calling?
    I think vs a non thinking player it puts me in a very way ahead way behind situation and for a guy who has more bluffs in his range on a board like this in most spots I'd rather just call.

    Bart
  • LarryLido said

    What's a "Sunday Bluff" Bart?
    "Semi bluff"
  • OminousCowOminousCow Posts: 702Subscriber
    Bart said
    LarryLido said

    What's a "Sunday Bluff" Bart?
    "Semi bluff"
    And so it came to pass that a new poker term was born.
  • LarryLido Posts: 52Member
    Sunday Bluff:
    Verb
    A bluff perceived as executed in an inexperienced or unskillful way, esp. from one who rarely bluffs.
  • If you are heads up and checked to on the river when the pot is $200 and you bet $100, how much are you betting to win?

    I disagree that you are always only betting to win $100 and that you always have to have the better hand more than 50% of the time when you are called, as this is only true when your opponent is never folding out a better hand.

    If you think you have the better hand or if you have showdown value and you are not betting to fold out a better hand, then yes, you are betting $100 to win $100 and you need to win more than 50% of the time when you are called for the bet to be profitable.

    But if you have no showdown value but you think that you can get a better hand to fold more than one out of three times, then you are in fact betting $100 to win the $200 that is in the pot. In situations where you expect that this $100 bet will fold out a better hand more than one out of three times, the bet is correct even though you may be good zero percent of the time when you are called.
  • whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    Sunday Bluff: a bluff which needs to work only once a week, i.e. 1/7 of the time, in order to be profitable.
  • Heisenberg said

    If you are heads up and checked to on the river when the pot is $200 and you bet $100, how much are you betting to win?

    I disagree that you are always only betting to win $100 and that you always have to have the better hand more than 50% of the time when you are called, as this is only true when your opponent is never folding out a better hand.

    If you think you have the better hand or if you have showdown value and you are not betting to fold out a better hand, then yes, you are betting $100 to win $100 and you need to win more than 50% of the time when you are called for the bet to be profitable.

    But if you have no showdown value but you think that you can get a better hand to fold more than one out of three times, then you are in fact betting $100 to win the $200 that is in the pot. In situations where you expect that this $100 bet will fold out a better hand more than one out of three times, the bet is correct even though you may be good zero percent of the time when you are called.
    Yes this is true, but I was talking about value betting the river. I'll clarify in future episodes.

    Bart
  • OK thanks for the reply, in the context of a value bet that makes perfect sense to me. One of the things I really love about your podcasts and videos is the way you will go into depth on concepts like that rather than just talking about WHAT you would do in a certain situation rather than the WHY. I look forward to hearing more about this in the future and how you relate the two concepts together. The value bet concept and the bluff concept in this example are clear to me, but I am still working on fully grasping how these two concepts blend together in a situation where you are making a "combo bet," i.e., betting to get value from worse hands while simultaneously trying to fold out better hands.
  • Combo bets refer to spots where you can get draws to call and weaker made hands to fold. As you can see this would not really apply to situations where you were on the river last to act.

    Bart
  • Got it, if the term only applies to getting draws to call that makes perfect sense to me now. Thanks.
  • shmed Posts: 321Subscriber
    Hi Bart,

    Meaning to write that that last week's episode was fantastic -- you really articulated the very valuable value betting concept in a clear and simple way.

    One illustration of your discussion on river value betting this is a recent hand I played at $5/10. I don't think I could have gotten the river value I did without a lot of your training material.

    My image was probably tightish, neutral that night, but the villain is a younger Asian guy who is a good thinking player, but I've seen him call down light before and caught me river bluffing the last time we played awhile ago. Effective stacks around $1500

    One MP limper to me, I raise button to $40 with 9c8c, villain calls out of the BB, MP calls, Pot is $120 post-rake.
    Flop comes 9h8h7d. Checks to me, I bet my top two for $90. Both call. I put them both on SDs, FDs, and perhaps one-pair type hands. Pot $300.
    Turn comes the Kd. Checks to me, I still beat virtually all of their range, I bet $250. Villain thinks and calls, MP folds. Pot $800.
    River comes the 4d. He checks. I think in earlier days, I may have checked this one back, fearing slowplayed hands that beat me / being reraised off of a middling hand by the river. However now, as I thought through the action -- he did not hit the front door FD and SD so nothing has really changed. But he could have put me on the front door SD or the FD and thus as a thinking player this is a perfect spot for him to bluff-catch what he thinks I might have -- especially since he's caught me barrelling before. I bet $350 -- purely as a value bet to get called by worse. I think your discussion fits perfectly into this, because betting more may have only gotten better hands to call and worse hands to fold. He called and mucked.

    Although admittedly a brag, I think this hand is a great illustration of what you are teaching and wanted to credit your articulate training -- allowing hands like this have definitely added much to my game.
  • Shmed--

    If you think that this guy might only be calling with a smaller two pair (unlikely the way the hand played out) or Kh Xh I probably would bet larger because I think that you will get called by worse.

    Bart
  • shmed Posts: 321Subscriber
    Thanks Bart -- I was thinking about my sizing after the hand. How much would you have bet here into an $800 pot?
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