Welcome.

Take a tour. Enjoy some free sample content.

How it works

Free Video: CLP Video No. 287: Home Game Bart Reviews His Splashy At $1-$3 Deep Part 2

Free Podcast: CLP Podcast No. 54: Time Warp And Turn Value
New to Crush Live Poker?

Becoming an Unstoppable beast

QHealthy Posts: 100Subscriber
edited March 2014 in Poker Goals and Challenges
I'm already one of the best regular in my casino. But I still have a long way to go to be an unstoppable beast :)

-I've been reading every single poker books I could get my hands on.
-I watched every Bart Hanson videos. at least 60 more than once.
-I read all the articles twice.
-Been listening to a lot of podcasts, from Bart and a lot from Wiltontilt on DC.
-I'm watching all the Phil galfond stuff on Run it once.
-I'm listening again and again to Mental Game of Poker 1 and 2 and reading poker tells audiobooks on my way to the casino and on my way back.


I'm looking to get a better way to work on my game than just passive learning. So I'm taking one of Ed Miller's advice like its the voice of god.
Best thing you can do to get better at poker:

Every day, take ONE hand you've played recently. Write down preflop ranges for yourself and your opponent. Then go through the hand and figure out how you should play every hand in your range on each street and how your opponent should play every hand in his range. -Ed Miller
So here we go...


Game is 2/5$NL 500 cap, relevant effectives stacks are 1500$ with main villain, but both limper have around 400$ stacks. The main villain is a young pro hes good but a bit on the calling station side. He called at least 3 of my 400$+ bluffs and view me as way too aggro.
2 Limpers I make it 30 on the button, Main villain calls in SB and both limpers calls.
This is my range to iso 2 limpers of these types.
image
Villain will sometimes 3bet light, so my range will be tighter in this spot.
I expect villain to call fairly wide here something like this.
image

The pot is 120$
Flop is K 7 2
-I would check AA, AK and KQ, KJs I can still get alot of value against 400$ stacks, but I dont expect the good villain to pay me off 3 streets with worst than top pair. Especially that I look strong betting into 3 players on the flop.
-I would check/back KK as well, if Im due too get stacks in against 77 and 22, it will happen on the turn or river anyways. I also give him a free shot to hit a set on the turn.
-I would check/back my QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88... The lower the pair the less im sure its should be checked back. I think I like a 70$ bet with TT-88.
-I would Cbet bluff everything else. This board is as dry as you can get. And I expect to get a lot of respect by betting into 3 players. Also had a good image.

I think villain could lead sometimes with sets or KQ KJ and KT. But I think he would usually expect me to bet and go for a check/call or check/raise.
I think he would check/fold almost all his air as well as his 2nd pair. hes got 2 players behind left to act.

In this occasion I checked back and the turn brings the J
Everyone checked to me and I bet 70$, I would bet that with all the hands I checked on the flop. AA AK KQ KJs, As Well as QQ JJ TT (I feel I would be tempted to bet bigger with TT)

I would expect villain to lead with sets JJ, 77, 22. or lead with KQ KJ KT,
I think he would check/call, JTs AJo, AJs, QJs and check/fold everything else. I wouldn't think he would lead bluff into 3 players without AQ or QT any suits. He might check/call it.. but I would think he would take the aggressive approach and lead.

As played villain check/called and the river bring an offsuit T.
I think villain would still go for a check with JT, AJ, QJ, or QT that he happens to have.
He certainly put me on a wider range. than just the range I assigned myself.In his eyes when I bet I could have any busted heart draws, or turning a QT or even any Jx into a bluff.

The pot is 260.
I would bet 175 here with AA AK KQ KJ QQ JJ TT.
I notice that when I check back the flop I almost never have any bluffs in my range by the river. But given the fishy players in the pot and the history with villain, its the right adjustment.

Let me know what you guys thinks of the way I would play certain hands or if you think the ranges I assign villains are off.

Also... let me know of some good ways to work on your game.






«1

Comments

  • JCW Posts: 591Subscriber
    Well it was a lot to take in here so I will just focus on one part of it. Your flop checking range. It is nearly all top pair + hands. I think this is bad in the short and long run. In the short run, you will miss a lot of value from dominated hands. In the long run, you will be easy to play against.

    If you want to have some slow-played hands I would adjust it as the following.

    Bet: AA, AK, KQ -- all of these hands can get three streets of value on some run outs.

    Check: KK, KJ, KT -- these hand can get two streets of value on some run outs.

    That is my first thoughts on this breakdown.
  • QHealthy Posts: 100Subscriber
    edited March 2014
    JCW said:
    Well it was a lot to take in here so I will just focus on one part of it. Your flop checking range. It is nearly all top pair + hands. I think this is bad in the short and long run. In the short run, you will miss a lot of value from dominated hands. In the long run, you will be easy to play against.

    If you want to have some slow-played hands I would adjust it as the following.

    Bet: AA, AK, KQ -- all of these hands can get three streets of value on some run outs.

    Check: KK, KJ, KT -- these hand can get two streets of value on some run outs.

    That is my first thoughts on this breakdown.
    I would usually bet AA AK KQ, however in this particular hand I decide to check back for 2 reasons, 1, I can still get stacks in vs the shorter stacks, and 2, I wont get 3 streets against the good villain anyway and he aggressive enough to put me to a tough decision if he raises me somewhere in the hand.
  • OminousCowOminousCow Posts: 702Subscriber
    I agree with @JCW. Your flop checking range here is super unbalanced. On this dry board, you want to be able to make profitable cbets with your misses and that means having some value backing your cbet in addition to air. You would also like to be able to bet to protect your pocket pairs > 7's.

    Note also that your cbet size should be small on this flop. If villain is somewhat reasonable and a calling station, he will definitely call $50 with hands worse than a K.
  • OminousCowOminousCow Posts: 702Subscriber
    edited March 2014
    Note also, that against quite a few villains (especially sticky ones), you will get more action from medium strength hands by betting the flop (since they think you could still have air) than by checking. One iteration further though, this leads to delayed cbetting head games.
  • QHealthy Posts: 100Subscriber
    I understand what you guys are saying.. And I agree after thinking about it I think I could get 3 streets sometimes against the main villain.

    But the thing is... its not my standard line, so I cant be unbalance.
  • QHealthy Posts: 100Subscriber
    edited March 2014
    There's a limp, and there's a raise to 30$ from a 120$ stacks in MP, hes been losing but doesn't seem to mind that much.

    I am in the HJ seat and I put him all in for 120$
    I would do this with TT+, AJs+, AQo+
    Good regular to my left literally snap reraise to 300$! we are effective stacks of 600$.
    Button thinks for ever and folds, original raiser calls.

    Can I pin point the good regular's hand to AK in this spot?
    And since the button thinks for ever, can he have a mid/high pairs JJ or QQ? which makes the good villain more likely to have AK. Also when the shortstacks calls, he can also have a big pairs and make the good villain more likely to have AK.

    I feel like we should 4bet for value when we expect others to continue with worst. I expect the good villain to know this. I think he view my re-Iso as light for value and AJs AQo TT maybe even 99 and 88. So I dont think he would snap 4bet to 300$ AA KK and QQ. When he expect me to fold most of the time. with AK it would make sense to this sizing.

    In this hand I feel like I should stack off with TT+ and AK.

    What you guys think?

  • QHealthy Posts: 100Subscriber
    edited March 2014
    I approached one of my old heads-up skype buddy if he would be interested in analyzing hands with me. He plays 2/4, 3/6 Online. He offered me to teach me how to use cardrunner EV. Its getting interesting.
  • QHealthy Posts: 100Subscriber
    edited March 2014
    Took the weekend off from poker (sort off). Should probably be playing Saturday night but I had some stuff to do.

    Been reading a poker book, that probably nobody ever heard of. ''Emotion-Based Poker''
    its actually not bad, they bring studies of how people are more likely to seek risk or avoid risk at certain point in their sessions, when they are losing or winning. Nothing new to the Bart Hanson students :) Made a call down in a limped pot Friday that I wouldn't have made if I did not have that in mind...
    And somehow thinking about these stuff made me less likely to tilt myself. It gave me willpower to not seek risk when down. So thats a good thing.

    Back on the grind monday night. And next CardrunnersEV session on tuesday.


  • QHealthy Posts: 100Subscriber
    Been working a little bit more with Cardrunners EV

    And been reading ''The power of now'' pretty good stuff!

  • BradleyT Posts: 621SubscriberProfessional
    Subscribed. Can't wait to see some more CREV stuff. Right now I'm reading Ed Miller's 1% book, going through all the GTO vids I can find on DC, CR, RIO-Essential, and then going to attempt to re-read Applications.
  • QHealthy Posts: 100Subscriber
    edited April 2014
    I read Ed Miller's book and started Mathew Janda's book, not sure if its the next step for me as a live No-Limit player.

    I felt using CREV, making accurate assumptions and learning to make better lines with my reads was the way to go for now. Especially for live games where balance is not very important and the exploitive approach is usually better. IMO
  • GoldenEagle Posts: 59SubscriberProfessional
    FWIW, I think you are not getting that much benefit out of working on balancing your lines, watching stuff on RIO, etc.

    I use to sort of be in the same boat where I would try to grab an learn as much material as possible. But the bottom line is that we are playing live poker. We don't have to worry about GTO, balance, etc.

    David Chan wrote a great post a while back on live NL. You would have to search around for it and you may have already read it, but basically he compared it to tennis.

    I have found that focusing much more on the common situations has improved my game much more than worrying about the sort of stuff that RIO, Ivey League, Applications of NLHE, etc. will teach you.

    That is just my two cents.
  • OminousCowOminousCow Posts: 702Subscriber
    When you focus on common situations, what do you do to analyze them?

    I'm very uncomfortable with saying that we don't need to have a good understanding of the fundamentals of the game since we are playing live poker. If you don't understand the theoretical underpinnings of the game, how will you be able to properly adjust your game to changing circumstances? What will you do when a few new players drop into your pool who play dramatically differently from the players that you are strongly biasing your game towards taking advantage of? How can you make sure that you are exploiting the leaks of your opponents to the maximum?
  • OminousCowOminousCow Posts: 702Subscriber
    edited April 2014
    Going with a different tennis analogy, I really don't want to be one of those recreational tennis players that you see constantly on the courts who never learned proper form but manage to get by by playing a lot against the same small set of people. Their pancake serves and strange backhand work well for them against their buddies but if they ever play against a better player, they would get completely stomped.

    However, their progress is fundamentally capped because they went with what felt easiest and most effective to them when they were starting out (i.e. a local maximum of technique) rather than training the harder but fundamentally sound strokes that would let them progress to their physical limits.
  • QHealthy Posts: 100Subscriber
    Be careful to not confuse good fundamentals with GTO, good fundamentals is why to fold, check, bet or raise. GTO is more of the unexploitable frequency of fold, check, bet and raise.

    Saying no to GTO does not implied that we say no to improvement. Exploitive plays also contain GTO stuff. Even if its by accident.

  • Lownstarr Posts: 268Subscriber
    edited April 2014
    Ehhh this seems like overkill. Since you pay for this site, I'd focus more on a lot of Bart's core themes:

    1. Are you making good pre-flop decisions? Playing tight but aggressive? Applying Bart's 15-25-35 rule?

    2. Are you focusing primarily on getting value from good hands against fish and not on fancy play against good regs? Are you getting value-owned more often than missing value bet opportunities? Are you not focusing on balancing actions at the cost of max value actions?

    3. Are you bet/folding and raise/folding?

    4. Are you respecting aggressive actions by fishy villains and generally assuming they aren't bluffing?

    5. Are you really comfortable with Bart's c-betting matrix?

    6. Are you getting comfortable with rudimentary hand reading and putting people on ranges?

    7. Are you at least a break-even player who keeps good records?

    I'd answer yes to all of the above after extensive podcast listening and video watching before I spent a lot of time on GTO stuff.
  • GoldenEagle Posts: 59SubscriberProfessional
    OminousCow said:
    When you focus on common situations, what do you do to analyze them?
    It depends on what level that you are playing at. If you are a $1/2 (3) player, I would focus on bet-sizing, c-betting, double barreling, hand reading, etc.

    Once you move up to $2/5, you will need to focus more on three-bet light and just dealing with an overall amped up aggression level.

    I can't speak to the higher levels because I am not there yet.
  • GoldenEagle Posts: 59SubscriberProfessional
    I think Lownstarr's post is correct. Mastering all of the fundamentals is paramount compared to learning GTO.

    Think about why GTO came popular. The online games were getting so tough that players in the game needed to revert to a basic strategy so that they weren't be exploited. We don't have to worry about that. In fact, we can even play a style where we can be exploited if that makes sense. The whole bet-fold thing is super exploitable but 95% of our opponents are not going to be able to exploit it.
  • BradleyT Posts: 621SubscriberProfessional
    If your tables are filled with recreational fish whom you can value-bet to death - congratulations you probably play in LA. Some of us aren't that lucky. Some of us have a smaller player pool where people do remember what line you took with AK last week.
  • Lownstarr Posts: 268Subscriber
    edited April 2014
    BradleyT said:
    If your tables are filled with recreational fish whom you can value-bet to death - congratulations you probably play in LA. Some of us aren't that lucky. Some of us have a smaller player pool where people do remember what line you took with AK last week.
    So I challenge you to think harder about your view. I moved to Texas from Miami not too long ago. In Miami, poker is legal, and there's a ton of rooms, games and fishy tourists just like you describe in LA.

    However, in Texas, poker isn't legal (go figure). So I was driving 2.5 hours to Louisiana to play in a small legal room with lots of tough regs during the week and some fish on the weekends. Then I discovered the underground poker scene, and its giant school of fish.

    Are you sure you're doing all you can on game selection in your area?
Sign In or Register to comment.