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adjustments to a lag??

terrymaxwell Posts: 31Subscriber
edited April 2014 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
i need help guys and i know you all are wise beyond your years!!!
first a background story of why i dont just find another game
its a 1/2 nlhe game (underground) here in atlanta were the choices are slim and rake is high
in this game it plays more like a 2/5 with 500 dollar average stacks and only a $4 rake.
90% of the players are older businness owners that play fit or fold poker after the flop
thier are not any short stacker or jackpot pulls....it really is the best game around until.....

recently thier has been an extreme lag showing up and taking my plays away from me. i usually find
myself the table captain and people think im the crazy loose guy.
i would consider the villian a good lag that opens 50% of hands preflop and 3bets 25% of his holdings
will barrel flop and turn and makes decent descions on the river....

i find myself becoming this nitty old man coffee(30yo lol) locking down waiting to catch him...everything
i love when people do to me while i steal pot after pot. and when i get a pair i just become a calling station

whats my play? adjustments? if it was a casino i could just table change but thats not an option
my thoughts are tighter preflop opening...top 20% and maybe start 4betting with my top 10% since he
3bets so wide....i also thought about check raising with combo draws(straight/flush draws or pair/flush).
any thoughts ??

Comments

  • Collecting_Tax Posts: 177Subscriber
    If he is truly opening 50% of hands and then running wild post with barreling then why not just adjust by calling down lighter and 3betting pre for thin value? The only mistake i think that would be made here is to start playing back at him when you have a big value hand. I think this is one of those times to start slow playing. aka let the LAG be himself.
  • terrymaxwell Posts: 31Subscriber
    tax- that makes sense i could see alot of variance playing back assuming he wont back down. im just afraid of becoming a calling station. im so use to being the one pushing the tempo...thanks for the feed back
  • DrGambol Posts: 724Subscriber
    If he's opening 50%, then 3 bet the crap out of him for value. You can't open that wide and defend against 3 bets very well. He will either have to play large pots, often OOP, with a weaker hand range than you or fold. Most likely, he'll try to bluff you and play his weak range since these people don't like folding.

  • Philly Dave Posts: 114Subscriber
    edited April 2014
    I would consider flatting his 3b with premiums rather than 4b. Also consider inducing lines with your strongish hands.

    If he defends too much and too light by all means re raise for value but if he's decent and wide you may not get max value by raising rather by keeping his air and weak hands in.

    Basically keep his range wide and let him barrel.
  • electricsheep Posts: 169Subscriber
    I would tighten up my range and check-call a lot
  • terrymaxwell Posts: 31Subscriber
    thanks guys we play tonight ill make some hand notes and report how i run...
  • daniel9861 Posts: 207Subscriber
    edited April 2014
    3bet and 4bet more instead of less either for value or as a bluff depending on how often he folds pre and post flop. It's good for metagame too so he can start tightening up and you can iso the fish all to yourself again.
  • grindbler Posts: 131Member
    edited April 2014
    I see people mis-adjust to this situation all the time.
    my thoughts for what they're worth:
    these are some mis-adjustments I see:
    1] "he's raising light, so i will start CALLING him light preflop, even OOP", "I won't get bluffed off of my J7s". Now the lags mission is accomplished, he's got you off your game; he's got YOU playing the worst style = loose-passive. Instead, 3-bet and ISO him IP w/ value. KT might be good enough FOR VALUE!!

    2] "he's Full of s*** (FOS) so i'm calling his big river bets with bluff-catchers."
    No! Anyone can get dealt a monster and make hands, and a good lag will be loose on the flop, a little tighter on the turn, and the tightest guy at the table on the river.
    just because he's spewwing small on the early streets doesn't mean he's spewwing when the real big $ goes in the pot on the river.
    good lags can put on the brakes well, and sense strength.
    correct lag strategy is to generate an image where he gets his value hands paid off light.
    he doesn't care if he breaks even, or loses a little with all his small bluffy stabs when he gets it back plus interest later. he's actually making good investements by spewwing if you mis-adjust.

    3] "he's a maniac, so i will out-maniac him"
    this one is horribad. now he's got you attempting the impossible, and you will run into the blade when another player you aren't focused on is sand-bagging you both.

    so, nit it up, which is correct anyways, and don't CALL him; that's what he wants.
    If you can't raise him, wait it out.
    So what if you occasionally fold the best, but marginal hand? if you play it right, you'll high-card him, and chop him off eventually. take advantage of the fact that he's giving you a head start in a race by opening so light. this takes patience, tho.
    if he's a REAL maniac, and you're going into heads up pots with him w/ that feeling of uncertainty, then wait til you have a hand you are never folding and let him try to barrel you off of it. (ie. overpair/ set/ str8, ect...)

    my .02
    GL
  • Tyrith Posts: 353Subscriber
    grindbler said:
    2] "he's Full of s*** (FOS) so i'm calling his big river bets with bluff-catchers."
    No! Anyone can get dealt a monster and make hands, and a good lag will be loose on the flop, a little tighter on the turn, and the tightest guy at the table on the river.
    just because he's spewwing small on the early streets doesn't mean he's spewwing when the real big $ goes in the pot on the river.
    good lags can put on the brakes well, and sense strength.
    correct lag strategy is to generate an image where he gets his value hands paid off light.
    he doesn't care if he breaks even, or loses a little with all his small bluffy stabs when he gets it back plus interest later. he's actually making good investements by spewwing if you mis-adjust.
    This has an assumption in it - that our opponent is a good lag and not a spewy lagtard. Taking this as an axiom would be unwise. In practice, I don't think people adjust to the street as much as they do the dollar amount, but it really just depends on the villain.

    In this particular case, I would agree with you that we need to tighten up on the river, per the description in the OP. This means we should be willing to call down two barrels relatively lightly and then either fold or check/fold the river.

  • grindbler Posts: 131Member
    edited April 2014
    a bad lag is just a bad player; a turbo-fish IMO, and usually doesn't give you fits and make you post threads is what i assumed; maybe i assumed wrong?

    a bad transparent lag you can float with air for 2 streets and when he checks the river, bet and watch him fold/ print $.

    in a full ring game i think playing even a good lag style isn't that sustainable in todays poker climate. 'citizen' James Mills kinda proved this. (see his deuce plays podcasts w/ bart... good and super funny). (ie. i think he quit poker eventually)
    the best thing about knowing how to play lag yourself is to know thier style better than they do, and then you can take them apart...
    so we should definately know how to exploit these guys, and i see people do it backwards all the time.

    what i do is try to observe the kind of mistakes that all my opponents make, and then when i'm home i think about how to exploit that; what situations do i want to find myself in to exploit that. even better, what situations can i create to exploit that...


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