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$2/5 short stack, correct play w/ AK facing action pre & post flop

Ssull33Ssull33 Posts: 25Subscriber
edited April 2014 in NLHE Strategy Discussion

$2/5 game- Hollywood Casino Bangor

Villain 1- super aggro fish that takes wild lines to hands. He is terrible overall. His stack sizes roller coaster up and down because he plays so many hands and refuses to fold often. Have seen him 3 & 4 bet pre flop with garbage hands as well.

Villain 2- somewhat decent player that rarely plays $2/5 as he is probably not bankrolled for it. Has a huge stack at the moment and seems to be playing more hands that usual. Usually takes strong lines to hands and I rarely see him make weak plays.

Hero- just sat at the table and has initial buy-in of $500. Has not played a hand yet but is a known regular in this game by both villains.

Hero utg A♣️K♣️ raises to $15. +2 calls. HJ calls. V1 raises to $65. V2, SB, calls. Hero calls. +2 calls.

Flop: Q♣️10♣️9♠️ ($260)

V2 ($2200 eff) leads $150.
Hero ($435 eff) ?

Am I overthinking this because it's a no-brainer shove? Even facing a set? Thoughts?


  • ddz Posts: 150SubscriberProfessional
    When V2 leads into 3 other players on this flop 1) what is his range and 2) do you have any fold equity? It would seem to me that you have little to no fold equity vs. V2 and that if you hit your overs you may not be any good vs him. If he does this with a weak Queen or Ten, then maybe you can get a fold if you shove.

    HOWEVER, you have so much equity in this hand (royal draw!) that I see no reason to raise here. You WANT the other players to come along. By raising, you force out any dominated draws that they might have. It would be a disaster if we got other club draws to fold if we shoved here.

    I'm calling, praying that the others call behind me, and calling off on pretty much any turn. Board pair may be dependent - based on whether V2 is only leading sets in this spot.

    Also, any reason not to 4-bet pre flop? I understand you have AK suited, and it's okay to let others come along, but with all of that dead money in the pot, I'm probably throwing in a 4-bet, especially since V1 raises with garbage so much, and V2 is probably a bit scared money so is unlikely to have AA or KK in this spot.
  • If v1 is 3 betting wide 4 bet pre and go with it.
    As played you have to jam. At worst you have 40+% equity. He only has to fold a small amount of time for shove to be profitable
  • Ssull33Ssull33 Posts: 25Subscriber
    The discussion here is really around 2 things: 1) how to proceed pre flop vs bigger stacks and oop, 2) how to proceed on the flop against bigger stacks on a great board for me.

    I am 75% of the time 4 betting in this spot to either ISO or pick up dead money. However, in doing that I knew I was essentially committing to the hand and would have to go with it. I elected to flat and try to smash a flop, which happened, but then V2 leads for 40% of my stack.

    First thought, V2 flopped a set and was never folding. Thus taking 9♣️ as one of my outs.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    Based on sizing preflop I would have shipped it against V1s threebet pre.. He is spewy and you have the best hand alot of the time and only flipping the rest. Yes villain can have KK or AA but given ops description he is raising so often you can discount that alot.

    On flop I would just call.. but not fold unless the board pairs on the turn and all sorts of all ins happen in front of you. Treat this as an all in but try your best to drag others who are drawing to non nut hands in. I would do this if your spr is not bigger than say 4 or 5 on the flop. when you are deeper you raise raise to get fold equity/build a pot with such equity. In this situation you are pot committed and you dont want to blow dead money from the pot. trick is you cannot fold on the turn.

    Now on ranges.. since V1 is so spewy I am not so sure he would have a hand as good at two pair.. V2 can and he is leading into two players so he could.. but most players still would check raise 2pr + so he probably has a pair and some kind of straight draw..

    If you feel V2 is only capable of betting top pair then call and dont fold.. if he is capable of betting say second pair and a draw then I am shipping on flop..he just might fold..

  • daniel9861 Posts: 207Subscriber
    Easy 4bet/call pre. As played calling to let others in is probably best since your draws are to the nuts and it doesn't look like there's FE.
  • Ssull33Ssull33 Posts: 25Subscriber
    Interesting feedback to flat the $150 lead on flop, leaving me with $280 eff behind. I do like this idea. It's obviously not what I did but something I need to be thinking about doing in the future.

    It's seems most of you are ok with me flatting pre flop oop....
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    edited April 2014
    Ssull33 said:

    It's seems most of you are ok with me flatting pre flop oop....
    actually I think most of us werent ok with you flatting. Against villains description I am not sure why you WUDNT want to get it in with him? You smashing the flop might also kill all your action. therefore villain leverages your stack not his. With AK against his range too I would want to see all 5 cards, not to say that with his raise and the dead money account for about 50% of my stack 65x3 + your 15 raise (x 3)=$240 ..not a bad payday if they all fold..

    Remember if you can win by getting a fold pre that should always be your line.. then you immediately win 100% of the equity in the pot rather than some smaller % of a bigger pot but needing to actually hit to realize the equity.

    by 1Ssull33
  • Defacist Posts: 131Member
    edited April 2014
    I agree with the others that a reraise pre was probably a good idea, but I don't think flatting is a huge mistake. As played you find yourself in a pretty nice spot on the flop. @ddz is right on about just calling here. If you feel like you're gonna get it all in eventually anyway, why not get some extra value out of flop callers behind who might be in marginal spots? Your draw is strong enough to where you don't have to be too worried about taking them along for the ride. A shove pretty much eliminates that opportunity. His turn bet will likely put you all in, and against this Villian I'm calling any turn, even a paired board.
  • Ssull33Ssull33 Posts: 25Subscriber
    I really like the suggestions I'm getting here. The size of my stack entering the hand and then facing a bet on the flop seemed to confuse me into not really thinking about value. To be honest, V2's cold call pre and then lead on flop really confused me because he is usually a passive type player by nature and also playing up a level with a big stack.

    Because of my stack size I shoved, $435. V2 tanked called. (which also surprised me because I had a worse flush draw being at the bottom of his range and the nuts being at the top, all of which I assumed would be an insta call)

    Turn 5h
    River 9d

    V2 mucked after I showed and I won w A high. Clearly he had a smaller flush draw.

    I'm definitely glad I posted this hand because the feedback has allowed me to really look at the hand differently. I really learned something on this one. Thanks to everyone for the input.

  • neverlearn2 Posts: 2,845Subscriber
    Crazy haha. Bet it felt like Christmas to win tht pot.
    by 1Ssull33
  • fishcake Posts: 962Subscriber
    4 bet/get it in pre vs. this player. As played, call flop.
  • DavidTuchman Posts: 786Pro
    4bet pre.

    As played, I shove all-in on the flop and I don't think it's close.
  • Arenzano Posts: 1,399Subscriber
    4 betting pre is the right play, on the flop it's a shove not a flat given the action. This not a limped pot where you have Ax clubs and you are looking for others to come along. I disagree with others who said you have no fold equity and by the bet size V2's lead is never a set or two pair. The bet would be much larger in most cases.

    Your highest equity with this hand is on the flop! You are 54% against Qx and 33% against a set. Flatting you cut that in half.
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