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$5/10 SB flopped trips with kicker issues

shmed Posts: 321Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
First of all, congrats on the new site Bart!

Will save detailed personal thinking for later but welcome thoughts for any street.
$5/10 live 9handed NLHE, $1200 effective (I have button villian covered), in SB with Ah9h
I have not been in table long and not been active, villain is unknown but has been involved and aggressive, but hands not gone to showdown -- youngish 20 something guy.

one MP limper, button raises to $45, I call, BB call, MP limper calls, $180 in pot.
Flop comes AcAd7s.
I check, checked around to button, who bets $100.
After some thought I call, folded around.

Turn 2h
I check, he bets $300, after some thought I call.

River 6c
I check, he moves all in for ~$750. Thought? Tx in advance.

Comments

  • eselspiel Posts: 115Subscriber
    It may be nitty, but I fold PF. Your hand is easily dominated; absolute and relative position suck if limper or BB calls the raise.

    As played, bet the flop. Folks with pairs might call. If you check and it gets checked through, you are giving people with a pocket pair a free card and a shot at your stack.

    As played, call the flop; fold the turn. You slowpalyed your hand like many playeres would do. So agains ta thinking player, our hand is not going to be as underrepped as we might think. Unless the guy is a maniac, he is gonna slow down when you call.

    In general, I would look for softer targets.

    ES
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    If the player who raised is rather tight then I will probably fold this hand pre flop.. Given that you called I think the fact that he bet three streets means he has a value hand. If that is true then what can you beat that he would raise with? not much.. so fold to the all in on river..

    Wendy
  • I echo Wendy and ES's sentiments here. I would not call preflop in this spot although you could occasionally mix in a 3 bet if you wanted to have that dynamic. As played I call flop and turn and absolutely fold river. There is no way that someone is trying to bluff you off of an A here. His line should be pure value.

    Bart
  • reedmylipsreedmylips Posts: 1,146Subscriber
    After you call two streets, in his position it doesn't look like you have any intention of folding, so he would only fire the third bullet with a value hand better than A9. It would be a pretty weird line to think, "It looks like SB has an A here, and maybe if I fire all three straights, he'll lay it down!" More likely thought is, "It looks like SB has an A, GIN!!! Value-town!"

    Having said that, it still sucks hard to lay down the A. Not sure which street to lay down. I would probably lay it down on the river, and hate myself for not laying it down on the turn.
  • shmed Posts: 321Subscriber
    Thanks all.

    Interesting PF thoughts. I called with a suited A hoping for a multiway pot where perhaps I can overflush smaller hearts (which I got as we went 4 handed), and play PoF cautiously knowing that I'm behind many value A hands that raised. Will consider folding in the future, but didn't think the situation was that different from calling limpers with a suite A for the same reason, and interested to hear thoughts on how calling a button raise differs from limping a suited A (if you are disciplined post flop).

    When the trips fell, I felt a lead into the PF raiser it really turns my hand face-up -- what else but an A would donk here? I think I would checking my entire range was the only way to keep my hand disguised. I also expected him to c-bet and rep an A, especially if he missed (he might check behind and slowplay an A).

    On the turn, I thought hard about folding, as I didn't think my hand could beat most value hands -- however this villain could be double-barrelling a c-bet with a wide range, and if so, I figured he'd give up on the river. I folded to the shove for the reasons you all discussed above. Appreciate the discussion.
  • eselspiel Posts: 115Subscriber
    shmed said

    Thanks all.

    Interesting PF thoughts. I called with a suited A hoping for a multiway pot where perhaps I can overflush smaller hearts (which I got as we went 4 handed), and play PoF cautiously knowing that I'm behind many value A hands that raised. Will consider folding in the future, but didn't think the situation was that different from calling limpers with a suite A for the same reason, and interested to hear thoughts on how calling a button raise differs from limping a suited A (if you are disciplined post flop).

    .
    The key difference for me is position. In this hand, there also was no guarantee the limpers would be calling so you would be able to overflush. If you have the button you might consider overcalling a raise from MP with a caller or two inbetween.
  • TDF Posts: 1,130Subscriber
    If you fold PF, do you also fold ATs, AJs?
    If you fold on the river, what is your check calling range? Do you think we need one?
  • TDF said

    If you fold PF, do you also fold ATs, AJs?
    If you fold on the river, what is your check calling range? Do you think we need one?
    I think the added higher kicker value of those hands along with their straightening possibility makes them more of a call although I probably wouldn't call ATss against a very good player.

    We really don't need to have a check calling range on the river here especially if the pf raiser bombs river. You could make the case that AQ is the cutoff as he may bet the same hand or AJ the same.

    Bart
  • eselspiel Posts: 115Subscriber
    TDF said

    If you fold PF, do you also fold ATs, AJs?
    If you fold on the river, what is your check calling range? Do you think we need one?
    Which AX hands of ours dominate his AX raising range? Otherwise, you have a reverse implied odds hand. Unless he's a total fish, you're going to win a small pot or lose a large one.

    As played I'm leading the flop. From an agressive but not manical player, I expect to hear if my kicker is no good. I'm also protecting my stack by not giving any free cards. I have been called by worse (pocker pair) on two streets because the guy didn't believe I would lead an A6 (free play in the big blind) on an AAX board.

    More than anything else, I think positionwith implied odds hands should be your biggest take-away.
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