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plo/8 strategy questions

chilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
I'm thinking about playing in the LAPC tournament on 2/12 that is a mixed format of half PLO/half PLO-8 or better. There are also a couple of others before that day that are straight 8 or better (i think one is pot limit and one is no limit).

Since I don't have a lot of experience with the pot limit variety of omaha 8 or better (moreso with fixed limit), I wanted to pick your brains about strategy. Here is a starting point of my initial thoughts about the game:

- Play hands that can scoop high and low.
- Don't call it off with a low draw (without a made high hand).
- Draw to the nuts for at least 1/2 the pot (especially in a 9 handed game).
- Make a low and freeroll to a high hand.
- Play a small pot with a high only hand until you crush the flop.
- Don't play middle run downs or middle pairs.
- Play a small pot until you either: cannot be counter-fitted on the low, or have a near nut high hand.
- Don't raise a bettor with only a one-way hand (especially the nut low or nut straight) that can easily be duplicated for 1/4 of the pot.


Any other thoughts / considerations / advice / corrections / tournament tips to add here? Thanks. I figure I'll probably end up playing tight anyway during the 8 or better rounds.

Comments

  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    Hmm.. where to begin.. Bart can go into alot more detail that I can but here is my basic strategy when playing PLO8.. If you stick to it you will likely be way ahead of your competition since so many in the plo/plo8 tourney will have no clue how to play plo8

    1. Scoop pots.. So this means either have a low and freeroll to a high or you have a high only hand . I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to play pots where your scoop potential is high.. Its NOT important to win alot of pots.. Its important to win the scoops..

    2. In general you should have a good two way hand.. A wheel card min suited and better still if you have another wheel card to go as backup.. The extra card can either be another A (best) or broadway straight card.. DONT play hands with a 9 unless you are double suited to A2x..

    3. If you play a high only hand you really want some flush potential A high preferred and play Tens and higher.. So A, K, Q, J, T.. dont play with a 9.. This can make your hand but someone else with a higher straight.. Thats bad.


    4. In general I play for limps in early position with most of range.. I like to do this for two reasons.. If I do have AAwheeel wheel and someone raises after me I might be able to limp reraise to get half my stack in. If I cannot get at least half my stack in preflop then I am probably not limp reraising with this type of hand.. In pos if you can three bet w AA wheel wheel for half your stack then you should raise.. If you have AAxx and no wheel if its not suited then you can even consider throwing it away..

    5. High only hands should in general be limped and hope your flop is a wrap like texture and you can play plo.. most players will be playing for low and you can scoop the pot.

    5. If you have a good two way hand like A wheel wheel broadway and you are in post.. you can consider raising to get the blinds out.. you are probably not going to get anyone else. PlO8 player are flop happy and you will HAVE to play post flop..

    6. NLO8 is more of a preflop game then post flop. I have played many NLO8 tournies online and many players will shove with any AA or A2 hands.. be patient and only push with A wheel wheel suited hands and AA with a low draw.. you will win the big pots and thats what matters..

    whew! If I think of more I will try to post but I am sure Bart will add some good tidbits and probably will correct me on a few here (I hope not!).

    BTW.. I hope to play some of them too so let me know when you come down and I will come by your table and say hi.

    Wendy
  • chilidog said

    I'm thinking about playing in the LAPC tournament on 2/12 that is a mixed format of half PLO/half PLO-8 or better. There are also a couple of others before that day that are straight 8 or better (i think one is pot limit and one is no limit).

    Since I don't have a lot of experience with the pot limit variety of omaha 8 or better (moreso with fixed limit), I wanted to pick your brains about strategy. Here is a starting point of my initial thoughts about the game:

    - Play hands that can scoop high and low.
    - Don't call it off with a low draw (without a made high hand).
    - Draw to the nuts for at least 1/2 the pot (especially in a 9 handed game).
    - Make a low and freeroll to a high hand.
    - Play a small pot with a high only hand until you crush the flop.
    - Don't play middle run downs or middle pairs.
    - Play a small pot until you either: cannot be counter-fitted on the low, or have a near nut high hand.
    - Don't raise a bettor with only a one-way hand (especially the nut low or nut straight) that can easily be duplicated for 1/4 of the pot.


    Any other thoughts / considerations / advice / corrections / tournament tips to add here? Thanks. I figure I'll probably end up playing tight anyway during the 8 or better rounds.
    Chili,
    Your assumptions are pretty much spot on in deeper stack cash play. Unfortunately what you are going to find is that much like a PLO tournament you are not going to be very deep in relation to the blinds. That means that high hands go way up in value (but with at least two low cards, ace being key) as often times people will be getting it in preflop or on the flop. A hand like AKQ6 is much more powerful than A234 when dealing with small effective stacks. In cash game PLO8 AKQ6 is trash just like A9os is in a NL cash game--but of course you may drive it in a NL tournament. And a little known fact AAXX without a low is still usually over 50% equity vs the best non AA Hi low hands.

    Bart
  • chilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    3betting pre.
    In the early stages of a tourney what hands if any are you 3betting pre:
    - in position
    - squeezing
    - out of position (from the blinds)
    - do u have a 3bet / fold range?

    In the later stages (as spr decreases), I assume we are opening lighter and getting it in lighter with hands that play mostly for the high side. Things like AKK6 or KK73.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    I am playing the PLO8 rebuy tomorrow at lapc. who else is?

    wendy
  • chilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    i played it last saturday. nothin doin for me. my table was crazy action though. there was one hand where 5 people were all in preflop. just amazing -- the winner of the high side of the pot was QT96 single suited in clubs. he made a queen high flush. wow. and three people split the low with A2. the 5th guy was in there with the A35T!

    i'll be playing the plo/plo8 rebuy on tuesday. u? trying to extend my streak of final tables in plo tournies to 5 (i don't count last week's plo8 in that streak obv)
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    I might play tues depends on my work schedule. You can see how bad players are in these plo8 tournies. so bad for the one guy with just the high. he must have thought everyone had the low.

    wish me luck!
  • chilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    Trip report from LAPC plo8?
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    chilidog said

    Trip report from LAPC plo8?
    So I was at a table with 8 others who kinda knew what they were doing. "Kinda" in the sense that they have played O8 before .. but I wouldnt say they knew PLO8. There was one player I thought was very good and besides myself he knew how to play.

    At the first brake it was neck and neck between him and me who had the biggest stack. After the first break and add on I won only one hand in 1.5 hrs and the blinds just get big.. The structure was such that it was almost a turbo and if you arent catching cards there is not much you can do.

    I was doing my best to try to find spots but the cards just didnt cooperate. A couple of times I had to fold hands to nit raisers with Suited aces but not good low cards.. Like AQ48 .. these are junk cards in a raised pot and I threw them away.. Early after the addon I limped utg with AKQ2 suited with the ace and got raised pot by the good player.. it was heads up between us and I would have played if only one more person was in the pot. But as I said earlier he was a good player and I didnt want to call off 1/3 of chips to play oop against him.

    I also got AAK8 ds once against him and he three bet me.. barrelled off on all three streets and I folded the river.. Naturally I missed getting my flush and my low was I am sure no good..

    So After 5 hours I was looking for a good spot to get it in with a short stack of around 4500 at 400/800 blinds.. Guy opens in co I look and see AKK4 with nut suit in dias and I hapily reraise all in. He calls and we table hands

    he has A975 suited in spades and I have AKK4 suited in dias.. I am rather dominating him.. For starters his hand is just junk in O8.. middling cards are just going to get you in trouble. I have a better low and a made pair.. He can almost never get a straight without putting a low on the board so we chop that .. His best hope is to flop two nines.. Well again I get it in pretty good and

    flop A49.. this is pretty much the worst flop for me. I am dead to a king now and there are only 2 left..

    Turn A.. so gross

    River 9. really just pour the salt in!..

    Players see omaha as "any four cards" and they win with crap hands like this and it keeps them coming back.. I have never seemed to get anything going in a live PLO8 tourney yet.. I played the wsop 1500 plo8 a few times and same thing happens.. Get half my stack with ATT3 ds and A245 calls me and flops wheel draw, nut low nut flush against my Aces and second nut low.. pretty much his perfect flop..

    After the addon, I only got A2 once and won the pot on the flop.. that was it.. happy with my play

    ww
  • chilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    Surprised you limp / fold AKQ2, even vs a good player. I mean you at least want to see a flop, right?

    I'm 95% in for today's plo/plo8 at LAPC. Hoping I don't get knocked out by the KQJ7ddd in the 8 or better round this time. Who else is in? Will say hey if anyone is there.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    chilidog said

    Surprised you limp / fold AKQ2, even vs a good player. I mean you at least want to see a flop, right?

    I'm 95% in for today's plo/plo8 at LAPC. Hoping I don't get knocked out by the KQJ7ddd in the 8 or better round this time. Who else is in? Will say hey if anyone is there.
    By the time of my AKQ2 hand the blinds such that to see the flop it would have been 30% of my stack. Then I would have to play oop against the best player at the table. I just wanted to pick another spot. Had it been someone else or me in pos I would have absolutely called.. *sigh*

    Also I could have and maybe should have raised with the AKQ2 hand but besides that one guy the table was super passive and in ep I was hoping to maybe get someone in where I dominated them. *sigh*

    I am 95% NOT playing tonight as I have conf calls and demos tomorrow and probably shouldnt stay up too late. GL. if you have any questions on PLO8 rounds send me a Private Email on twitter and I can give you my phone number to text.
  • chilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    At least I didn't bust on the bubble -- I was out early-ish when I got all in in plo with AKTT vs AA93 on T78r. Pretty tough to be a bigger favorite in plo, something like 94% on the flop. He went running clubs ftw. There was amazing value in the tourney with people overplaying weak-ish high hands in O8, and doing stuff like betting naked overpairs, or straights when the flush hit, or calling twice with JJ98 in O8 on A43-9-5 and then bluff betting the river (definite head scratcher there). I never really hand a hand, and when I got it in with aces full on the turn vs a naked low draw, I chopped. Anyway, wish these things went more often as people play Omaha sooo badly!

    I was out in time to jump into Live at the Bike with Matt affleck and kevmath for a small plo game. It was fun, but I didn't play near optimally. Was just kinda relaxing and blowing off from the tourney. It was weird how often I was dealt AAxx in that game, and then how many times I flopped a set. I think i was something like 3 of 7 times in 3 hrs flopping a set of aces, and btw I won none of those hands. Anyway, broke about even in the game and then won back my $400 tourney cost at holdem.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    Chili..

    Sorry you busted.. At least is was early.. BTW there are a bunch of PLO8 tournies in the upcoming winnin o the green at the bike starting in early march.. sked is here..

    http://www.thebike.com/poker-tournaments-los-angeles/wog-2013-2013.html

    didnt see any straight plo.. but there are 2 plo8 tournies.. will play those for sure if I am not traveling for work.. Laugh definitely going to play as many as those as possible before the wsop . then decide if I will play the 1500 plo8 again..

    Ww
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