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Top Straight on a paired board deep

JerseyJay Posts: 181Subscriber
edited July 2014 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
2-5 $1k max game at a casino. I am a mid thirties white guy with a stack of @$1k. Villain has been playing a couple of hours w me and covers me 40is white guy. Not sure how he views me but I havent been too out of line. Hes seems competent but hasnt played a ton of hands or gotten into too many big spots, so not much of a read. Not super tight or loose. One limper, villain raises MP to 20, I call from blinds w JTo, limper calls. Flop ($65) is 889 rainbow. I check, limper makes it $25, villain thinks and calls, I call. Turn ($140) is 7h putting 2 hearts out, giving me top straight. I check planning to check raise, limper makes it $50, villain thinks and calls, I make it $200, limper folds, villain groans (kind of overdoes it I think to myself, suspiciously) and calls. River (@ $690) is an offsuit 5, I check planning to check call, he ships putting me all in for @750, and I....


  • LVH Posts: 171Member
    Fold. The groan/shove is perhaps the most reliable tell of all time. You might be chopping sometimes, but nothing other than that or a FH makes sense. Is he playing an overpair this way? He raises PF, is passive in every decision after that, then all in for over pot on the river. It's a tarp!
  • maphacks Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    fold pre. fold river
  • GhostDogGhostDog Posts: 328Subscriber
    Maybe I'm just a huge nit, but does anyone else not like drawing to the straight here on a paired board?
  • ClockClock Posts: 1,133Subscriber
    I don't like that obvious reverse tell :???:
    Kind of a tough spot...
    Is villain the kind of player who would open-raise suited connectors like 98, 87 (how about unsuited?) How about Ax (like A8s?)

    I would not expect him to have 77-99 based on pre raise sizing.
    (usually I see ppl raise more with med PP)

    Would he overplay AA (to lesser degree QQ, KK) like this?
    River shove doesn't really make sense for AA but some ppl think it's the NUTs and go NUTS.

    Is he capable of bluffing big on the river?
    Then I think some AThh-AKhh possible as well.
    Any heart suited broadway with Th (T J , T Q , T K , T A ) is a open ended st-flush draw on the turn.
    (maybe the tell on the turn was genuine - HUGE draw "have to call" - it's possible)
    Do you hold T or J in your hand? T is key here!

    If you don't hold T , and you think he's capable of bluffing big I think it's a 50/50 spot to call/fold
    Obv your straight is a bluff catcher at this point (although he could be overplaying a few hands), so I would say you have to go with live read/live assessment of the villains capability to bluff and go from there...

    If I think villain is not your typical weak/tight or lose/passive 2/5 donk and is capable of moves, I think I'm calling...

    Results? :cool:
    by 1LVH
  • JerseyJay Posts: 181Subscriber
    Ill take it one response at a time. Thanks all.
    The groan/shove is perhaps the most reliable tell of all time.
    fold pre. fold river
    Try not to take this the wrong way, but if I was looking for this advice Id be on Two Plus Two. Im a good poker player, and am completely capable of playing a connected hand like JTo OOP preflop, and on a flop like this. The old "fold pre" stuff is not typically helpful, especially here on SeatOpen where Bart is specifically not the "preflop police". Thanks for the response though.
    Maybe I'm just a huge nit, but does anyone else not like drawing to the straight here on a paired board?
    Nah, your not a hige nit for that. I agree, but the price was so good here I called. Good thought though.

    In response to Clock's response above, I would just reiterate that we really dont have much of a read here, after only playing an hour or two with someone. So the whole, "would villain do this, or that" logic, while certainly sound poker thought, is not necesarily relevant here due to the lack of sample size.

    I tanked forever and folded. I jibber jabbered with the guy during and after the hand. He said he wouldnt show if I folded, whatever that means typically. I made him laugh a little I think genuinely, so that seems consistant with the nuts and not a bluff. He said he "didnt flop it" and was also "hoping I had an 8" after the hand, so if those are true statements means he may have had A8, or same hand as me for straight, 77, or 87. Who knows. Maybe he was lying and had 99 or 89. Appreciate the feedback.
    by 1LVH
  • beauregard Posts: 1,592Subscriber
    Jay -

    don't take this the wrong way but Maphacks is 100% correct. Here's why...

    calling with unsuited connectors oop will rarely lead to you extracting the most when you hit them.
    playing unsuited connectors oop can only be won when you hit... you're playing defense and will rarely get the opportunity to bluff your opponent off his hand.
    flopping trips with unsuited connectors either loses you a big pot due to your kicker or wins you a baby pot.
    And JT is a very, very obvious calling hand. Most 2/5 players can spot JT coming on any 89, Q9 or KQ board from a mile way.

    ask yourself this:
    what flop can you hit in which the raising V will never see coming or pay you off like an ATM?
    what if the limper folded? now you're playing HU oop with JTos? Are you really getting the proper odds to call with JTos oop?

    So if you're truly a "good poker player that's capable of playing connected hands" - you would only call with JTos oop against the biggest calling stations of your games. Not a V that you described as competent.

    Therefore... don't take this the wrong way but I concur with maphacks... "fold pre. fold river."

    unless you can conclusively say that your V is raising with hands that you crush with JT, you should rethink your oop, blind calling range.
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