Welcome.

Take a tour. Enjoy some free sample content.

How it works

Free Video: CLP Video No. 287: Home Game Bart Reviews His Splashy At $1-$3 Deep Part 2

Free Podcast: CLP Podcast No. 54: Time Warp And Turn Value
New to Crush Live Poker?

Dry Side Pot Theory Question

napncrash Posts: 177Subscriber
edited July 2014 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
2/5 NLHE Borgata

UTG straddle. Thinks he's very good. Is questionably competent. Is playing $89 total and is still straddling. Berating the biggest donator. I've attempted to get him to stop harassing the donator to very little avail.

+1 limps $10.

I make it $55 with 76ss.

Donator to my left calls with $220 behind. Button reg calls ($400 eff). Straddle ships $89 total. This is not a full raise so it is the max that can be bet preflop now. Limper folds, I call, donator calls, and button reg calls. Pot is $373.

Flop is 885r with one spade. I have the open ender and a backdoor flush draw. My 7 and 6 might both be live, but I have no idea at this point.

There is a side pot here, UTG is all in. I'm first to act in a 3 way dry side pot with a rather good flop for this hand in this situation.

Normally, there's not much of a reason to bet into a dry side pot if you're likely behind the all-in player. But in this case, I don't have a hand, but I have significant equity.

I have a donator to my left, unlikely to fold at this point with the pot so bloated. I've seen him get it in with just overs in big pots multi-way. Legit donator. He might fold preflop, but once he's in a hand, he desperately wants to see all 5 cards.

Regarding the button, he'll go with it if he has any over pair, but that's it (unless he smashed big).

So here's the question:

Do you bet into this side pot for value? Semi-bluff lead? Is that a thing? ha. Is my equity enough to want to get it in with the all-in player and shut the other two out? How do I feel when they call since I'm just getting more money for my straight draw when it hits?

Weird spot.

Thoughts? Do we lead here? If not, what's the plan?

Comments

  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    So your first mistake was raising so big you could not reopen the betting. Always be aware of short stack so you can iso if necessary

    Also why raise so big over one limper? Why not 40?

    With this action on that board i am going to just check and hope it gets ch around. U wont get anyone to fold and you can already be drawing dead. If you had four flush then i wud bet but rather small since i think that will have same affect

    Given descriptions its spewy to bet. Just take a free card if you can.

    Now if you had a pair bet half pot at most
  • LVH Posts: 171Member
    I'd probably fold pre because the short stack is going to do this a lot. If there's a raise and two callers, he might do it with anything remotely decent.

    I'd check the flop. People play so passively in these situations. Many view it like a tourney, where you're cooperating to bust a guy. And of course, they have to show down, so there's no point in bluffing. You'll also know where you stand more often if it's checked around and you hit anything, including pairs.
    by 1Tyrith
  • Tyrith Posts: 353Subscriber
    LVH said:
    I'd probably fold pre because the short stack is going to do this a lot. If there's a raise and two callers, he might do it with anything remotely decent.

    I'd check the flop. People play so passively in these situations. Many view it like a tourney, where you're cooperating to bust a guy. And of course, they have to show down, so there's no point in bluffing. You'll also know where you stand more often if it's checked around and you hit anything, including pairs.
    I agree with all this. This doesn't seem like a good situation to raise relatively lightly pre-flop. The donator is also relatively short, so he can't donate that much if you make a big hand, but you also don't have the possibility of winning a big pot from him with just top pair.
    by 1LVH
  • DrGambol Posts: 724Subscriber
    Fold pre. There's no reason to raise 7 high with a tilted loose straddler having 9 bb effective to the straddle.
    by 1khalwat
  • floppedawheel Posts: 1,063Subscriber
    edited July 2014
    pre, you made a play practically guaranteeing you'd end up having to put in $89 pre. if you wanted to do that with 76ss, i'm not sure why. if you didn't see that coming, i'm not sure why. you've given yourself less maneuverability post with shallower stacks.

    i'm guilty of this often as well, btw. not accepting the fact that my skill edge post just cannot overcome the lack of stack depth.

    and you have little fold equity now, so i don't think a bet makes sense. if they're gonna call on the flop, you probably don't have to worry much about getting more in the pot if you hit, since your hand will be pretty well disguised.
  • sleepyboy Posts: 127Subscriber
    Just reiterating what others have said for emphasis, but I'm never raising suited connectors like this in this spot just because you essentially have no fold equity. Even limping in is pretty bad because the straddlers just going to shove his $89 so often.
  • AesahAesah Posts: 1,048Pro
    Not much to add besides what people already said, but this made me laugh:
    napncrash said:
    Is playing $89 total and is still straddling. Berating the biggest donator.
    "so he's berating himself?"
  • MrFizzbinMrFizzbin Posts: 356Subscriber
    Sounds like a lot of soft spots in this game.

    Where the hell is the side pot? You make 55, straddler makes it 89 and 3 callers.

    Where's the side pot ?

    You messed up bad, bet the flop for 150 to chase out A-rag and the donator if he missed it. If the donator calls your flop bet you're done unless you hit. If the reg calls or raises you're done.

    Or just realize you messed up kiss the 80 whatever good bye
  • napncrash Posts: 177Subscriber
    Ok, let's tidy this up a bit.

    1) Maybe I should post my preflop blunder as another post. But that's not the focus of question.

    2) There is no sidepot yet. Forgive me if I typed it wrong in the original post.

    3) So let's say you're in this situation, regardless of preflop action. Let's say the circumstance that planted you in this situation was different. I'm really looking for dry side pot theory here.

    This post was asking:

    You have a dry side pot. You are first to act. You have flopped a shockingly good draw for your speculative hand. Do you lead into it or check it? And what's your plan from here on out?

    What if it checks through? Check turn if you miss? etc?

    It seems like most people are agreeing to check here and hope to hit something? That there's no value in trying to get heads up against the all in player?
    ------------------
    Oh, and:
    @napncrash said:
    Is playing $89 total and is still straddling. Berating the biggest donator.

    "so he's berating himself?"

    ---Ha! There was actually a much worse player... one of the most clueless, "older guy just having fun" guys I've ever played with. He was just gambling it up and enjoying his time. Meanwhile, had to deal with the other dipshit berating him. Frustrating.
  • BradleyT Posts: 621SubscriberProfessional
    The reason there's not much (I disagree with NO value) in getting it heads up is because 7-high is unlikely to win against the all-in player at showdown.

    The spots where it comes into play is where Ace-rag is in the hand and would fold to a flop bet (keep in mind Ace-rag is ALREADY BEATING YOU) but then they hit an Ace on the turn and then they bet large enough to prevent you from realizing your straight draw equity. Same thing with KJ - it's already beating you so while getting it to fold is nice, if you don't spike a 4,6,7, or 9 you're not going to win the pot anway.

    You definitely want to realize your equity with your hand but it must improve to win the pot.
Sign In or Register to comment.