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Vegas vs Miami winrates

PurpleWeed Posts: 23Subscriber
edited July 2014 in Low Content Forum
I was in Vegas for almost four years starting in 2010. Started listening to Bart around summer of 2011 I think. Anyway, Vegas games seemed bad during 2013. I filtered out my last 900 $2/5 NL hours in Vegas then compared it to a 1370 hour sample from Miami $2/5 that goes back to Nov 2013.

In Miami I'm making 4bb more per hour. Games are really really good. Yes, it's a bit shallower, rake is worse, but the players...


  • RDF Posts: 183Member
    Did you alternate between playing in Vegas and Miami, or move to Miami and log 1370 hrs after Vegas. Because maybe you improved as a player.

    Also, maybe you are in Vegas during tougher times (ie WSOP), etc.?

    I have played in both and found Vegas games significantly better.
  • PurpleWeed Posts: 23Subscriber
    I played all Miami hours after Vegas. I'm always trying to improve but I probably didn't improve at a faster rate than normal once I moved.

    I looked at my WSOP cash results over 3 years and I made significantly less during that period.

    I'm actually surpirsed my winrate isn't 5 or 6bb / hour higher in Miami. Tons more fishyness.
  • RDF Posts: 183Member
    It's not about improvement rate. But since we tend to improve as poker players, the fact that you played your Miami hands after your Vegas hands means you were probably a better player in Miami.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    Lol i am venetian right now . At midnight all of a sudden nits local regs leave and all fish replace them. Maybe just come for the late shift?
  • UntreatableFPS Posts: 1,004Subscriber
    edited July 2014
    I guess I'm not the only one who thinks Vegas games are bad to that extreme. Welcome to the club :)

    That being said, I doubt you could win 5-6bb more like you estimated in FL when factoring rake. Vegas is $4 max often 4th dollar not until pot is $80 no jackpot and FL is $5+2 with some places that charge preflop. So in the end, they take almost twice as much rake in FL. Mathematically, that's like adding a player who's winning close to $100/hr to your FL table (except without the stress of needing to play someone that good obviously)
  • BradleyT Posts: 621SubscriberProfessional
    edited July 2014
    Well keep in mind that a lot of the FL+2 comes back through promotions you actually have a chance of winning.

    Locally our +1 goes into a BBJ. I've gotten back between 2% and 5% of what I've paid in ($151 room share out of $3000-$5000 I've paid in). I would estimate a +2 with frequent promotions would have you getting back 60%+ without having to "get lucky" by being there when the BBJ hits.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,086Subscriber
    I have been thinking about what makes a great game alot recently. And its all based on how bad the bad players are.. and how much money they have to lose..

    So in general if the players are worse in Florida but are shorter than in vegas then you would probably win more in vegas. And visa versa..

    There are three casinos in vegas that allow very deep play in a 2/5 game. aria, venetian and wynn. other allow it but might not get a 2/5 game every day..

    In florida only Hialeah did I see a 600 max buy in instead of a 500 max buy in. that said many bad players in both locations bought in for alot less. and if the min was say 100 vs 200 that would also be significant.

    To give a good example of how big a difference this can make here is a hand I played at venetian on friday..

    The game is pretty good in the sense that its a good balance of very tight nitty players (that are super easy to play against) and a few bad looser players..

    I have about $1300 from a 1000 starting and have had a few decent pots and a few missed draws.. and one hand I could have bluffed river to avoid a chop but wasnt sure exactly if villain would fold so I didnt do it. that would have been a $1000 pot.. my image is maybe a little better than neutral

    Guy comes to my table new player.. at a glance I think he is a fish.. wearing a small cowboy hat ( I referred to it as a 5 gallon hat instead of a 10 gallon hat..lol ) buys in for 1000 which was a bit surprising to me..since most fish dont buy in for the max.. But over the next few rounds its obvious he is a standard abc but bad player.. only playing his actual hand value.. no hand reading etc..

    I had been fairly card dead for most of the night and a guy who was pretty weak moved from my left opening up an end seat that I prefer. the weak player (who paid me off on the only previous hands I got to give me my 300 profit) moved to seat 9 and I am seat 7 and the 5 gallon fish is in seat 5. I am in the co on this hand..

    5 gallon open raises to 25.. loose player in between us calls. I see As Ad and make a small raise to 80..

    everyone in blinds fold and back to 5 gallon and he tanks for a few seconds and calls me. guy in seat 6 folds.. we are heads up.. pot $170

    Flop Ts 8s 6 d

    just a dream flop.. I really think 5 gallon has a big pocket pair because he hadnt been raising at all and his tank before he called me.. a set is certainly possible but only TT I think since he would limp 8s and 6s..

    He LEADS into me.. for $100.. this just confirmed 100% he has an overpair and probably QQ or KK.. I make it $225.. he tanks and calls.. pot is $620 he now has about 600 ish left..

    Turn 2..

    just another perfect card.. he checks and I bet $300 with big chips.. he thinks for like 3 seconds and moves all in .. I snap call . he immediately turns over KK and I wait til river.. its a 7 and I turn over AA and win a really nice pot.. he leaves .. wished he had more money but of course he thought it was a total cooler..

    So this just gives an excellent example of me getting his whole stack of $1000 rather than his whole stack of say $200 or $500 or $600... in these spots this extra value is just so big for win rates.. I really get it now.. I used to not understand this ..but since I can fold a hand 200bbs deep I actually lose less than I might have if roles were reversed.. If I had $500 I might not be able to get away from the hand but being 1000 effective I can. yet the bad players still cannot get away from the hand. they say to themselves "well if you have AA its just a cooler" rather than working on their game and realizing I am never playing the hand this way with QQ..

    thank god for them.. so in the end if the bad players are playing deeper and pay off more then those are the games that will have the highest win rates for us..

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