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Flopped 2nd nut straight, re-raised on flop, proper action on my part?

NittyTag Posts: 22Subscriber
edited July 2014 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
2/5 at Aria. I have $800. I showed down one bluff against villain earlier in session where he called with 2nd pair. Since then I have played very tight, ABC, poker and have only shown down strong pre-flop hands that I value bet when they hit. Villain is aggressive and has been acting a little strange during the session, talking a lot in a kind of confrontational way. On the first hand I saw at the table, he bet the 2nd nut flush when the A brought the flush on the river and reluctantly called a large re-raise, losing to the nut flush. He knew he was beat but couldn't fold.

I limp in EP with 5 7, it gets limped around and there are 6 to the flop, including both blinds. I am third to act. Villain is in the SB and has me covered.

Flop: 6× 8 9

Villain bets $25 into $30, the BB calls, and I raise to $100. Folded back to Villain who re-raises me to $240. BB folds. Action is on me . . .

I was not sure what to do here. It was a limped pot so anything is really in his range here, including sets (18 combos), the nut straight (12 combos), 89 (9 combos), 6 7, T J . . . There are obviously more combos that I beat than beat me, but there are a lot of cards that can hit that are not good for me. I am interested to hear people's thoughts on what they would do in this spot and their plan for the rest of the hand.

Comments

  • fishcake Posts: 1,002Subscriber
    Fold pre. Shove as played. You should know what to do here when you limp this hand and flop a straight. Never folding.
  • neverlearn2 Posts: 2,862Subscriber
    not commenting on pre, i can see merits for folding, raising, or limping.

    I think we should flat here. Vil is never bluffing in this spot, pot is already about 500 and Vil will almost always lead all turns. Reason for calling is we can see if we can get away from a flush or a paired board, not saying we should but we have position and we should use it. Blank comes then we can safely and easily get our stacks in on turn since SPR will be close to 1 at tht point or even lower if Vil leads.
    by 1DFN
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    ship ship ship...

    and why limp pre? I always seem to be the preflop police but you really are looking to play this hand deep against a tight player who cant fold or against a weak player you can steal the pot later..

    If this guy cant fold the second nut flush then he cant possibly be a good player.. and seems to overvalue.. would love to have him at my table..

    His range is sets, two pairs, flush draws if you have seen him play his draws aggressively (if you have seen this then its even an easier rip).

    If he shows up with T7 then you now realize how hard it is to win with 57 and win a big pot when its limped. All your ranges are wide and generally its a cooler that makes the pot big.

    when you play this in position against a tight player then you can feel very comfy on a flop like this that you are never behind because the pfr would never raise with T7.

    ww
  • floppedawheel Posts: 1,063Subscriber
    you can make a case for limping if the game has been an unquestionable limp-fest, but if your villain is an aggressive player then it's not a limp-fest. so you will either be limp folding or playing a bloated pot out of position. have to remember, it's not only that you usually won't flop well, but that even when you hit a hand it's harder to build a pot. a lot of hands that you hit will go something like bet-call, bet-call, bet-fold, and it's hard to get those extra bets in. and other than the high variance all-out triple barrel, it's tough to bluff your way through when OOP.
    NEVERLEARN2 said:

    I think we should flat here. Vil is never bluffing in this spot, pot is already about 500 and Vil will almost always lead all turns. Reason for calling is we can see if we can get away from a flush or a paired board, not saying we should but we have position and we should use it. Blank comes then we can safely and easily get our stacks in on turn since SPR will be close to 1 at tht point or even lower if Vil leads.
    sorry, NL2, i think this is terrible advice. villain almost always has a) nut straight b) combo draw c) set d) two pair e) nut flush draw. if you conclude he will always call with that range, then you must ship. if you don't, you run some risk of action-killers and -- not negligible vs. aggressive villain -- of getting bluffed off the best hand. i don't think we can have our cake and eat it, too -- wait for safe turn AND still know we will get stacks in. if a spade comes, is he really always betting? we don't know that. he might check-call. and running spades vs. two pair is a complete disaster.

    bottom line, he's probably gonna stack off with the vast majority of his range, so a ship is correct for max value.
  • neverlearn2 Posts: 2,862Subscriber
    Im thinking that Vil is going to lead all turns regardless or calls our bet if he checks turn and we bet. Since tht is most likely going to happen and we are ahead here why not allow ourselves another street to get info? Maybe he gives something off on the turn. Really how many safe cards are there where Vil gets away from his hand on any other street now? A set, combo draw, 2 pair will all continue after the flop action IMO since our hand is severely underrepped now im sure to Vil's eye.





  • dannydeuces Posts: 239Member
    ship it!
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    NL

    tom is correct.. we cant have our cake and eat it to with these stack sizes.. If he has a hand that will call our shove thats worse it would be a travesty to allow a scare card to come that lets him off the hook. His range is ripe for calling and only one hand beats us.. This game is not perfect and I am learning that many times to win big you have to just get it in and hope the other guy doesnt have the nuts when your hand has the equity against his range.. Here I think our equity is better than this and we get burned then maybe we will learn to not play 57 from oop as a limp...

    wendy *clp preflop police capt*
  • NittyTag Posts: 22Subscriber
    I appreciate people's feedback. I quickly eliminated calling as an option because I felt there were too many cards that could come on the turn that were bad for me and I wanted to get it in on the flop. I shoved. Villain took a loooooong time and eventually asked me, "Do you have a redraw?" Apparently at the Aria, you can't engage in "table talk," so the dealer essentially told me to not answer his question (?!?!). Villain started talking out loud and said he knew I had the nuts but he had the nuts, too, but he knew I had the spade redraw, but he didn't think he could fold, etc. He ended up folding.

    Thanks again for the feedback. It is very helpful.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    No one except the nittiest regs wud fold the nut straight. He lied to save face. He had some crap hand. But against his range i still like ur shove
  • floppedawheel Posts: 1,063Subscriber
    lol what a ridiculous thing to say. he never would have said something so ridiculous if he had a real hand.

    and yeah, i hate at aria that you can't talk to each other heads up. dealer told me they get so many touristy players and they don't want them to feel uncomfortable. but i think the rec players LIKE the table talk.

    was funny. i'd been getting crushed by the luckbox of all luckboxes at aria (not just me, he was drawing out on everyone). i flopped a set on him and a third heart hit on river and he bet out with the pot already big. i couldn't auto fold cause he'd shown bluffs before. i asked, 'did you really hit it?' and dealer told us to be quiet. so i stared at him and raised my eyebrows inquisitively. and he half-closed his eyes and slightly nodded affirmatively. i folded and he showed me the king high flush.
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