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Call down or find a better spot.

Beebs Posts: 44Subscriber
edited July 2014 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Wondering if I should call down here with A high or wait for a better spot vs. villain.

V is a bad lagtard. Plays around 75% of hands pre. Raises about 20% of time and limps the rest. If he limps will call any raise less than 10x. If he raises will call any 3bet. Will bluff river with missed draw almost 100%. Will bluff any time weakness is shown and will barrel draws. Won't value bet thin on river. I doubt V is paying attention to what specific opponents are doing. As he's tried mult bluffs in some terrible spots when it's obvious they were not folding.

1/3 450 effective. V was hot at start of session running 200 up to over 1000 but is down to around 450 after about 3 hours. He limps from middle position and I raise to 15 from the cutoff with AhJh. Everyone else folds.

Flop comes 5d,4d,3h. V donks for 20. I call. Turn is 5c and V leads for 40. Do I call here and call any river that's not a diamond or 6/7? Or fold and wait for a better spot vs V?

Comments

  • the_glove Posts: 31Subscriber
    I'd fold but not to wait for a better spot- that concept doesn't really apply in cash games unless you're underrolled or prone to tilt. +EV is +EV.

    This is a terrible runout for your hand vs. his range (heavy in small cards when he doesn't raise pf based on your description), so I'd just fold the turn.
  • neverlearn2 Posts: 2,862Subscriber
    From your description sounds like a fold tbh. You say things like he attacks weakness and bluffs on missed draws. Throw in a wide range preflop idk what type of weakness you think he's attacking by leading on flop and turn.

    The big question is does fold hands on river to a big bet because tht might be only way to win hand if we were to continue.
  • JKH Posts: 835Subscriber
    I don't mind a calliper against this guy. ... against typical players this bet reps top pair or mid overpair like 88 against this guy it could mean straight draw, top pair , a pair or air thinking this board missed your range. I would call and evaluate river. If u have a read I think the call is alright, but the standard line for sure is fold
  • Beebs Posts: 44Subscriber
    Yea with his turn bet I thought his bluff range any 6x, 7x, and two hearts (every non premium combo was in his range) and possibly some random overs. I thought his value range was any boat, 5x, straight, or straight draw/pair combo.
    He would not fold trips plus to any bet.

    I called the turn and the river was Ks. He led for 60. I thought his range was really polarized at this point to trips+ or air. I tank folded but don't know if I should call with the river blank.
  • floppedawheel Posts: 1,063Subscriber
    Beebs said:
    I tank folded but don't know if I should call with the river blank.
    sorry i got onto this thread late, but before reading through i thought a call on turn and river blanks was totally fine since you seem confident in how you're ranging him. if he's barreling draws almost always then his range after limping is very wide and you beat most of it.... don't agree with glove that this is a 'terrible runout.' how so? he's got tons of FD and SD in his range. and unless he's coming out firing after flopping it, he hasn't gotten there yet, unless he happens to have a 5.... so if he doesn't value bet thinly but will bluff most of the time, i think it's a good call.

    i presume you called the turn with plans to call the river on a blank and then opted not to? if you know he's bluffing a big percentage then you need to decide on the turn whether you're calling down on the river or not. it's ok to fold on the turn, but not call on turn then fold on river when it brings what should be a blank. he's betting 60 into 155 or so. pot's 215. getting 3.5 to 1. i really think you're good 1 out of 4+ times. especially since he's presumably not betting with a king.
  • Beebs Posts: 44Subscriber
    Yea my plan was to call down. I just chickened out, and know that's a mistake. After thinking about it I think if I call turn I have to call a blank river.

    Yea I don't think he's betting something like K6. Thanks for all your thoughts.
  • BradleyT Posts: 621SubscriberProfessional
    This is one of those spots where you do make the call and he sheepishly says, "I got a 3" and flips over 93s and everyone looks at you like a retard when you muck.

    Been there done that, not where the money is made in LLSNL.
  • floppedawheel Posts: 1,063Subscriber
    BradleyT said:
    This is one of those spots where you do make the call and he sheepishly says, "I got a 3" and flips over 93s and everyone looks at you like a retard when you muck.

    Been there done that, not where the money is made in LLSNL.
    a 3 is probably the only hand with some showdown value that the average bad player might bluff with. you're beating the vast majority of his bluffing range. not where the bulk of the money is made. but it's a matter of how confident you are in a villains' patterns. following through on your confident reads vs. just conceding in those spots is the difference between a good win rate and a great one. guess you could say it's easy to overestimate your confidence in someone's betting patterns and style, and that's true. but it's worth it in the long run to at least try to figure these things out and make a real decision, rather than just say, 'this isn't the sweet spot for money-making so screw it'
  • the_glove Posts: 31Subscriber
    floppedawheel said:
    [quote="Beebs"]don't agree with glove that this is a 'terrible runout.' how so? he's got tons of FD and SD in his range. and unless he's coming out firing after flopping it, he hasn't gotten there yet, unless he happens to have a 5.... so if he doesn't value bet thinly but will bluff most of the time, i think it's a good call.
    Yeah, I overstated it. It's a bad flop but the turn reduces his value combos.
    Beebs said:
    Yea with his turn bet I thought his bluff range any 6x, 7x, and two hearts (every non premium combo was in his range) and possibly some random overs. I thought his value range was any boat, 5x, straight, or straight draw/pair combo.
    Given this, and after looking at it some more, I agree with floppedawheel- you should call turn and call blank rivers.
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