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Free Video: CLP Video No. 287: Home Game Bart Reviews His Splashy At $1-$3 Deep Part 2

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CLP Video No.153: Taking a Look at Low Limit

BartBart Posts: 5,949AdministratorLeadPro
edited August 2014 in Crush Live Poker Videos
In this episode Bart examines a low limit NL game where we see mistakes that can and do apply to the mid and high stakes levels.

http://www.crushlivepoker.com/videos/taking-a-look-at-low-limit
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Comments

  • Ten Posts: 1Member
    In hand #2, Bart said he cannot think of a single reason why Doug would bet out with his straight on a 4 flush board. To me, it seems obvious that he bets to prevent himself from being bluffed because he thinks, " I have a straight, I'm supposed to win this."

    I'm not saying its a good reason, because normally it is not. I'm just pointing out how I think some people think in some spots.
  • bulldozzzzzzzzzzzer Posts: 15Subscriber
    edited August 2014
    Bart,

    I enjoyed this episode and found it informative. Please continue to include more lower limit analysis such as this particular episode as it is beneficial for people like myself that have little time and fixed budgets.
  • kom Posts: 225Subscriber
    Please let us know what your new relationship with the Bike is; apparently you are not getting new footage and you have not done any commentating for a long time. For what it is worth, LATB has gone downhill, with shorter games and disinterested hosts and I don't really watch it anymore.
  • TomBayes Posts: 81Subscriber
    Good episode--people shouldn't skip over it just because it covers hands from an $80 cap game. I think there's plenty of interest for those of us that play $1/$2 & $1/$3 games in other parts of the country, even with bigger caps. We play so many hands where the effective stacks are <50 BBs against opponents that either buy in short or have dribbled down to a short stack.

    I'm glad Bart had the patience to wade through those episodes and find the worthwhile hands, because I have to admit I usually turn off those very small games as they aren't very interesting from a poker spectator standpoint.

    And as kom said above, hopefully we haven't heard the last of Bart & Tuch on LATB. Nichoel & Owais are OK and JCW is actually really good as a color guy, but Weisner & Madsen seem totally disinterested when they are in the booth.
  • BartBart Posts: 5,949AdministratorLeadPro
    kom said:
    Please let us know what your new relationship with the Bike is; apparently you are not getting new footage and you have not done any commentating for a long time. For what it is worth, LATB has gone downhill, with shorter games and disinterested hosts and I don't really watch it anymore.
    I don't have a relationship with the Bike anymore. As it stands right now I am too busy with other things to commentate on the show. LATB and the Bike are separate entities btw. I enjoyed doing the show for many years but I think it is time to move on for me.

    Bart

  • neverlearn2 Posts: 2,857Subscriber
    does this mean we wont be getting new footage for episodes?
  • DouglasSturtz Posts: 6Subscriber
    Hey Bart, the aforementioned Doug here. First of all, it is true that I am not an advanced player however; I am trying to advance through your training site etc. Gary was playing pretty non standard (wildly) and calling down very light and quite speculatively and getting pretty damn lucky in a lot of spots. So when I had 6h 7h and flopped a straight on a 5s4s8h board I knew that I was going to take him to value town!!!!! The turn brings the 8s. I knew that if he was drawing to the flush he would have raised me on the turn, but since he did not the best that I could put him on would be some sort of connected had containing an 8. Maybe some two pair combo 5,4????. Now to the nitty gritty..... The river brings the 2s for a final board of 5s4s8h8s2s. I have 6h 7h, Gary the villain in this hand has 3d Ks.

    Thoughts: I didn't want to check and then get bluffed off the pot. Gary by his play is totally capable of this. I wanted to bet because if the villain had some combo of a hand that had a smallish spade in it, I want to bet the river to possibly get him to fold. After all, I bet all three streets and no way should he call with pair and a small spade in his hand. On the flop where there is all kinds of two pair combinations, possible flopped straight, pair with an opened ended straight draw etc. I truthfully never considered that he had a hand that contained only one over that contained a spade. Personally I would have never played that hand to begin with nor would I pay off two streets with a naked spade.

    So in conclusion: Bart, after hearing your analysis I do get what you are saying and normally I would have checked, but with this type of villain I felt betting all three streets would look really strong and I didn't want him to win the pot with some little spade as described above. Yes he had the Ks but normally I think this would be a winner at the lower stakes.

    Community....Your thoughts greatly appreciated... Doug
  • BartBart Posts: 5,949AdministratorLeadPro
    NEVERLEARN2 said:
    does this mean we wont be getting new footage for episodes?
    I have tons of footage so there won't be a shortage. For the time being until we make another deal the stuff post April 2014 wont be on CLP. Not exactly sure of the timeline on a second deal.

    Bart
  • BartBart Posts: 5,949AdministratorLeadPro
    DouglasSturtz said:
    Hey Bart, the aforementioned Doug here. First of all, it is true that I am not an advanced player however; I am trying to advance through your training site etc. Gary was playing pretty non standard (wildly) and calling down very light and quite speculatively and getting pretty damn lucky in a lot of spots. So when I had 6h 7h and flopped a straight on a 5s4s8h board I knew that I was going to take him to value town!!!!! The turn brings the 8s. I knew that if he was drawing to the flush he would have raised me on the turn, but since he did not the best that I could put him on would be some sort of connected had containing an 8. Maybe some two pair combo 5,4????. Now to the nitty gritty..... The river brings the 2s for a final board of 5s4s8h8s2s. I have 6h 7h, Gary the villain in this hand has 3d Ks.

    Thoughts: I didn't want to check and then get bluffed off the pot. Gary by his play is totally capable of this. I wanted to bet because if the villain had some combo of a hand that had a smallish spade in it, I want to bet the river to possibly get him to fold. After all, I bet all three streets and no way should he call with pair and a small spade in his hand. On the flop where there is all kinds of two pair combinations, possible flopped straight, pair with an opened ended straight draw etc. I truthfully never considered that he had a hand that contained only one over that contained a spade. Personally I would have never played that hand to begin with nor would I pay off two streets with a naked spade.

    So in conclusion: Bart, after hearing your analysis I do get what you are saying and normally I would have checked, but with this type of villain I felt betting all three streets would look really strong and I didn't want him to win the pot with some little spade as described above. Yes he had the Ks but normally I think this would be a winner at the lower stakes.

    Community....Your thoughts greatly appreciated... Doug
    If you look at the board texture the only hand that he could possibly have in it with a low spade where he doesn't have trip 8s is 5x6s 5x7s and 4x6s and 63. These are all really a stretch. If he has trips 8s on the turn and then makes spades at the end I think he is going to call. If he doesnt have spades he is going to fold. So I don't think that turning your hand into a bluff is a good play in this spot because you beat naked trips. Your hand is too strong to bluff with and probably not strong enough to bluff catch. I would inevitably check fold the river.

    On the "preventing myself from being bluffed" note, I think a lot of people misconstrue this concept. When I talk about betting to prevent getting bluffed its usually at the start of the hand like on the flop. And you are betting to prevent being bluffed off of future streets. This concept doesn't really apply to the river. If you think that he is bluffing, call. If you think he has it, fold. That's about what it sums up to at the end and in this case there just isn't enough hands he is going to turn into a bluff as trip 8s almost always checks back.

    Bart
  • DouglasSturtz Posts: 6Subscriber
    Ok good points Bart...I get it Thanks

    Doug
  • SnOwHIO Posts: 114Subscriber
    I was hoping to see the lady's reaction in the KhJh negative EV hand! That one was baffling and I bet the conclusion had at least a bit of humor to it.
  • nickdevo1 Posts: 163Subscriber
    Bart,

    Regarding Doug's river bet;
    Poker, at this level, with these stacks, starts to become no-fun if you have to check-fold the river every time a back-door flush comes in. Bet, and hope he folds, or calls with worse, is the "i will not be pushed around" and my preferred way to play this hand.

    Having said that, I like how you put it simply at the end, if you think you have the best hand call, if you don't fold. It is somewhat empowering but not nearly as festive as betting the scary river card.

    Nick


  • x65Roses Posts: 20SubscriberProfessional
    Bart,
    I understand this video is older, but it has some very good info in it. As far as Dougs hand went, i agree. the bet was wrong. When trying to explain what the player was thinking its almost a situation of, "i dont know where im at, i deserve to win this hand, let me put in more money to make sure that happens." the thing that bothered me about the analysis though, was that you said "at this level people wont fold any spade." While yes, people at this level are "call happy"; the reason why, is not because they simply dont know how to fold, its because they dont understand hand values. in this situation, i promise you, a Ts or even a Js is struggling on whether or not to call. not arguing combinatorix here, just simply perception of hand values.
    -Justin
  • PaulG68 Posts: 5Subscriber
    A bit late to the discussion, but here's what I think anyway w.r.t Dougs hand.
    Assume Doug in the BB had 6h3s. The betting and action goes all the way to the river as the video. So basically he semibluffed the up and down, caught a back door flush, then the flush came on the river - but the worse flush.
    Would he still bet the river? To me this hand is more a bluff catcher hand than anything else. Yet at the river this flush is stronger than Dougs straight! Can't see any reason to bet. It feels more like Doug was unsure about what to do and so defaulted to a bet.
    If I was in this position on the river, checked and faced a raise, I would call if I thought I was ahead or fold if I thought I was behind.
    To me it looks as though its a frustration type bet to someone looking at the absolute value of the hand and not thinking through its relative hand strength and why he's betting the river - sorry Doug.
  • PaulG68 Posts: 5Subscriber
    edited December 2018
    I was just wondering, in the hand where +1 bets, and there are 2 callers in +2 and the cut off.
    Is it feasible for Trey to stick in a 4 bet with 99 in the BB? Something like 20? There's a lot of dead money in there and this comes over very strong.
  • BartBart Posts: 5,949AdministratorLeadPro
    PaulG68 said:
    I was just wondering, in the hand where +1 bets, and there are 2 callers in +2 and the cut off.
    Is it feasible for Trey to stick in a 4 bet with 99 in the BB? Something like 20? There's a lot of dead money in there and this comes over very strong.
    Because this video is over 3 years old can you write out the HH in question? Thanks, Bart
  • PaulG68 Posts: 5Subscriber
    Oh, sure no problem.

    Blinds 1/3
    Trey BB 9c9d $134
    Josh +1 KhJh $177
    Laura +2 KsTd $135
    Annie Cut Off QsTc $27

    (I think Annie starts with $27)

    Preflop:
    Josh raises $7
    Laura calls $7
    Annie calls $7
    Trey Calls $4 (+$3 blind)
    Pot $29

    So, Trey closes the action by calling Joshes raise.
    Looking at the hand from Treys perspective:
    1. We have 2 limpers in +2 and cut off.
    2. Annie is super low stack of $27 but would probably call a 4bet after putting in $7.

    Whats the feasibility of Trey actually 4betting instead of calling?
    So the pot at that time is $25 (before Trey calls).
    To me it looks like there's a lot of dead money in the pot.
    Also, with Annie I think there's a reasonable chance she will put her remaining stack. Since she just called with that stack, I would assume 99 would be ahead of her at that time. So ideally I'd get an effective heads up with Josh.

    Thanks.
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