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Rake Discussion

FuriosusFuriosus Posts: 21SubscriberProfessional
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
I live in Colorado, and occasionally travel to Nevada and Florida to play cards. As I get more serious about playing live poker, I would love to have a serious discussion about rake.

Specifically, I would like to know that the common methods for collecting rake, and how it will effect my table selection.

In Colorado, we have a $100 betting limit. They offer a 1/2-100 spread limit game, which plays essentially like a no limit game. The rake at the Ameristar is as follows:

$1 at $6 (Jackpot)
$1 at $10
$1 at $20
$1 at $30
$1 at $40 (Jackpot)
$1 at $50
$1 at 60

For such a small game, the rake seems outrageous to me; however, the rake structure remains the same for the 30/60 limit game that plays every day, and the occasional 50/100 limit.
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Comments

  • GlennJones Posts: 176Subscriber
    In California, a rake is not taken. Instead, a drop is taken. The difference is that a drop is a fixed amount regardless of pot size.

    So, when we say the drop is $4+$1, what we mean is that on the flop, the house takes $4 out of the pot for the casino, and $1 for the BBJ. It makes no difference if the pot is $5 or $100. Obviously, it playing small ball poker here means that you are giving up a large percentage of each pot to rake. So, I try to find tables that are not limpfests.

    Most L.A. casinos also take a "modified" drop if there is no flop. At the Bike, this is $1. At Commerce it's $2. So, if you play 2/3, and the blinds chop, the house is taking its modified drop, and the SB loses.
  • Fish Fryer Posts: 161Member
    In Charles Town, WV the rake is 10% up to $6 +$1 for the bbj at limits below 5/10. 5/10 is played with $7/30min time charge and no bbj drop.
  • FuriosusFuriosus Posts: 21SubscriberProfessional
    What is the rake of the typical Las Vegas casino?
  • Furiosus said

    What is the rake of the typical Las Vegas casino?
    $4 max at $80-$90. No jackpot. I'm assuming by typical you mean the strip.

    Really amazing to me that people complain about California's rake when it's actually pretty standard and even lower than some places. $4+1 or $5+1 everywhere I've played here.
  • coolfish7 Posts: 29SubscriberProfessional
    fishcake said
    Furiosus said


    Really amazing to me that people complain about California's rake when it's actually pretty standard and even lower than some places. $4+1 or $5+1 everywhere I've played here.
    Or house games' rake. In Houston that's the only option available unless you drive to Louisiana or Oklahoma. Houston underground games, conservatively, are 5% up to $8 (in a $5-5 game), with an additional $5 taken at a pot reaching $500 and an additional $5 taken once the pot reaches $1000.

    In Lake Charles Louisiana, the nearest casinos to Houston, the rake is 5% up to $7, with an additional $2 going to the Bad Beat Jackpot, which requires quad 5s beaten and both player's hole cards must play. They used to have a $7/half hour time-rake (similar to New Orleans), but are making ~30% more with the pot-rake than the time-rake (according to the room manager).
  • WackabrewWackabrew Posts: 400Subscriber
    fishcake said
    Furiosus said

    What is the rake of the typical Las Vegas casino?
    $4 max at $80-$90. No jackpot. I'm assuming by typical you mean the strip.

    Really amazing to me that people complain about California's rake when it's actually pretty standard and even lower than some places. $4+1 or $5+1 everywhere I've played here.
    People complain about California's structure because it's not a rake, it's a drop. In any pot that's less than $60, you are paying more than 10% of the total to the casino/bbj. Harrah's in Philly is 10% up to 4 I believe +1 for the bbj. Parx (where is play most of the time) is 10% up to 5, no bbj (thank god).

    To those that have a 5+2(!!) structure, I feel bad for you. That sucks.
  • FuriosusFuriosus Posts: 21SubscriberProfessional
    Does the rake structure in Colorado make the no limit (1/2-100 spread) unbeatable? Unfortunately, its the only game available that resembles no limit. Maybe I should switch to limit poker.
  • I still maintain that 5% up to a $25 cap in a $5-$5NL game might be even less of rake then your standard $5+1 California, modified drop like I talked about in the last show. Moral is drop really sucks and takes out more from the game than we actually all realize.

    Bart
  • Mike Posts: 371Member
    Where I play (vancouver Canada) the rake is 10% up to $5 and 1 for the bbj when the pot reaches $20 for 2/5 and below. At 5/10 I think they take 7 with no bbj. However there is no comp system here so we get fucked. Energy drinks cost $5+tip and alcohol about $7 +tip. Food has std prices for around here but with a tip your looking at $15 for a burger and fries.
  • Arenzano Posts: 1,464Subscriber
    So if you aren't rolled to play $5/$5, is there much you can do?
  • In Melbourne we only have one casino, the rake is structured differently at each level but when you play up to 5/5 you are paying $5 to take your seat (it's another $5 if you table change). Once you have your seat the rake is then structured like this:
    1/2 (20-80): 10% up to $15
    1/3 (50-200):10% up to $12
    2/4 (100-400):10% up to $8
    5/5 (300-1000):10% up to $8

    Crown try to make at least $200 per hour per table. For the higher limit games they charge each player by the hour, usually $25 each but they will increase that when it gets short handed to make their quota.

    We don't tip dealers though that's the small consolation. That being said there's still plenty of bad players so it's not all bad. Due to Crown's poor structures there's a lot of underground games that happen especially for the higher limits.

    Higher rake isn't always a bad thing as bad players don't consider it and they will play where they want to play while some good players will avoid it.
  • shmed Posts: 321Subscriber
    Wow, so the rake is actually higher in Melbourne the lower the stakes you play (that 1/2 game as a % of buy in is pretty crazy)! I sampled the poker in Sydney, Melbourne, and the Gold Coast a few years ago on a trip to Australia, and remembered the rake was outrageously high -- made me very much appreciate the rake in the states. To Cheating's point, the games did seem a bit softer.

    Another quirk I saw: in the Gold Coast, when a player wanted to leave the table -- instead of getting up and going to a cashier, the game would stop. The dealer would take all of the players' chips and change them into more streamline denominations or something like that, resulting in a pretty long delay. There were probably about half the hands dealt per hour as you would see elsewhere. One of the guys at the table acknowledged this, but didn't mind -- said everyone attributed it to the laid back culture of Australia.

    I love the country, people, land and animals, but man expensive slow poker!
  • zmoney11 Posts: 28Member
    I live in ABQ and we have a good rake. 10%-1 20%-3 30% plus-3 so max is $3 and $1 for bad beat. So max is $4. The problem is we barely get a 2/5 to last more then 5 hours and most games are 1/2 with a lot of short stacks.

    I've played in blackhawk and i thought that rake was high and i felt 1-2 was unbeatable and 2/5 would be hard to do. Mainly b/c of max bet. I did ok while was there, but i don't know if it was profitable.
  • FuriosusFuriosus Posts: 21SubscriberProfessional
    Unfortunately, due to the $100 betting limit in Colorado, 1/2-100 spread limit is my only option. I would have to drive to New Mexico to find the nearest no limit game.
  • UntreatableFPS Posts: 1,004Subscriber
    I still think the cheapest place to play in the couuntry is the Borgata

    $5 time collection every half hour for 2/5, $6 for 5/10

    Equivalent to the amount you pay the casino if you're a super nit and win two pots per hour in California
  • zmoney11 Posts: 28Member
    Furiosus said

    Unfortunately, due to the $100 betting limit in Colorado, 1/2-100 spread limit is my only option. I would have to drive to New Mexico to find the nearest no limit game.
    the games in New Mexico are pretty soft and the rake is nice. So, if you ever make the trip let me know.
  • FuriosusFuriosus Posts: 21SubscriberProfessional
    zmoney11 said
    Furiosus said

    Unfortunately, due to the $100 betting limit in Colorado, 1/2-100 spread limit is my only option. I would have to drive to New Mexico to find the nearest no limit game.
    the games in New Mexico are pretty soft and the rake is nice. So, if you ever make the trip let me know.
    Actually, its about a six hour drive to Alburquerque. Wouldn't mind visiting for a few days. What are the best card rooms?
  • zmoney11 Posts: 28Member
    I usually play at Sandia b/c they get 2/5 going. Also, they have the most tables and games. There are 3 others and they are ok. Santa Anna, Hard Rock, and 66. They get 1-2 sometimes but not always. But the games are good, but they might end early. Sandia: the games Th-Sat will go all night. All 4 have small tournaments and I don't think they are that great. If you want to have fun and bs for $30 bucks. its ok. but from what I've seen they look like a shove fest. Sandia has a $150 tournament on April 20th. I've heard the structure is decent. I can never play b/c I work. Also, that day gets good nl games. If you have further questions feel free to ask. If you follow barts bet fold and value bet you can win at these casinos. people are pretty easy to play against.
  • FuriosusFuriosus Posts: 21SubscriberProfessional
    zmoney11 said

    I usually play at Sandia b/c they get 2/5 going. Also, they have the most tables and games. There are 3 others and they are ok. Santa Anna, Hard Rock, and 66. They get 1-2 sometimes but not always. But the games are good, but they might end early. Sandia: the games Th-Sat will go all night. All 4 have small tournaments and I don't think they are that great. If you want to have fun and bs for $30 bucks. its ok. but from what I've seen they look like a shove fest. Sandia has a $150 tournament on April 20th. I've heard the structure is decent. I can never play b/c I work. Also, that day gets good nl games. If you have further questions feel free to ask. If you follow barts bet fold and value bet you can win at these casinos. people are pretty easy to play against.
    Thanks for the info. I will let you know when I make a road trip.
  • shmed Posts: 321Subscriber
    Claire that's good to know about borgata. I feel like I've seen close to that time charge at 5/10 in Vegas but can't remember where (aria or Venetian?)

    How tough are the games at borgata compared to say Vegas?
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