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2/3 100BB capped game - idiot end straight - what's our line?

GlennJones Posts: 173Subscriber
edited November -1 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Playing 2/3 100BB capped at the Bike on Sunday evening. Hero is CO and has been playing tight with about 85BBs. Neutral image. Villain is BB in this hand and covers. Table has been pretty tight passive with the exception of villain, who has been very active, calling most preflop raises and then donk betting and taking down many flops.

Two limpers to hero who looks at 8d7d. Hero raises to $16 (standard raise at table). Villain and one limper call. Pot is $48 less drop = $43.

Flop QdTx6x . Checks around. Not a great board for me without a winning image as I feel that this hits someone's range and I'm unlikely to get a fold.

Turn 9d. Gives hero the idiot end straight and a flush draw. Villain now leads for $80. Limpers fold. Hero??? We can put villain on QQ, TT, 66, T9, KJ and some bluffs/semi bluffs (like Tx).

Comments

  • whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    I don't like your raise size preflop with a suited connector and these eff. stack sizes.

    What does villain's huge bet size on the turn mean? Does he do this frequently?
    Without reads, it looks to me like he wants to protect draws. If that's the case, I might just flatcall and represent a draw, because he will pay you off if the river bricks (also, since you have a FD yourself, there are much less cards that kill your hand). But I think raising the turn can't be a big mistake either. He seems to have a hand, and your remaining stack is not that huge, so he will probably call with most hands he is betting with.

    I think the decision depends on how his leading range looks, especially with this sizing. What's the reason you assign him such a tight/strong range? Wouldn't he bet all Qx hands as well, for instance? You also mentioned that he generally plays a lot of hands and donks lots of flops. If he has a lot of medium strength hands and semibluffs, I tend to just smoothcall. But if his range is as strong as the one you have assigned him, I would probably shove.
  • CrazyCBettor Posts: 46Member
    I don't agree that you should flat call. He has made a huge overbet which seems to me most likely as a two pair hand (I am not sure if he was doing that regularly), people usually do not make such bets with sets or straights (apart for the river). I agree not many cards hurt us but there are many cards that will kill our action. so many cards bring a flush or a one liner to a straight. After we call the pot will have 200 bucks and we have 150 more, I would just shove the turn and I think he will call a high percentage of the time. Things would be different if you tell me he is a very very bluff happy guy in that case I would call the turn and call all rivers.
  • GlennJones Posts: 173Subscriber
    whatsyourplay? said

    I don't like your raise size preflop with a suited connector and these eff. stack sizes...

    Wouldn't he bet all Qx hands as well, for instance?
    What is your preflop move here? I contemplated folding for the reasons you state above.

    I think he leads top pair. Flop checks around. That's why I don't include it in his turn range.
  • Fish Fryer Posts: 161Member
    GlennJones said

    Playing 2/3 100BB capped at the Bike on Sunday evening. Hero is CO and has been playing tight with about 85BBs. Neutral image. Villain is BB in this hand and covers. Table has been pretty tight passive with the exception of villain, who has been very active, calling most preflop raises and then donk betting and taking down many flops.

    Two limpers to hero who looks at 8d7d. Hero raises to $16 (standard raise at table). Villain and one limper call. Pot is $48 less drop = $43.

    Flop QdTx6x . Checks around. Not a great board for me without a winning image as I feel that this hits someone's range and I'm unlikely to get a fold.

    Turn 9d. Gives hero the idiot end straight and a flush draw. Villain now leads for $80. Limpers fold. Hero??? We can put villain on QQ, TT, 66, T9, KJ and some bluffs/semi bluffs (like Tx).
    I don't think you should be raising suited connectors here with your stack size because it makes cbetting quite a challenge. When you raise preflop, check through the flop and then get bet into on the turn, it creates a really awkward spot.

    I'm surprised that you think V has such a strong hand and limited range. Based on your description, I would think he could have hands like JT, KJ, QT etc... here a lot. You have the straight and a flush draw, I'm ok with calling with the intention to shove non J rivers, or just getting it in here, with the preference for just getting it in.
  • whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    Zach Z-H said

    I don't think you should be raising suited connectors here with your stack size because it makes cbetting quite a challenge. When you raise preflop, check through the flop and then get bet into on the turn, it creates a really awkward spot.

    I'm surprised that you think V has such a strong hand and limited range. Based on your description, I would think he could have hands like JT, KJ, QT etc... here a lot. You have the straight and a flush draw, I'm ok with calling with the intention to shove non J rivers, or just getting it in here, with the preference for just getting it in.
    My thoughts exactly, too. Much better phrased by Zach, though.
  • whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    GlennJones said
    whatsyourplay? said

    I don't like your raise size preflop with a suited connector and these eff. stack sizes...

    Wouldn't he bet all Qx hands as well, for instance?
    What is your preflop move here? I contemplated folding for the reasons you state above.

    I think he leads top pair. Flop checks around. That's why I don't include it in his turn range.
    If the game is very passive with few raises preflop, you could limp. Otherwise, I would either raise to 3x (if players are weak, you have position and an idea about how they play postflop) or fold directly.
    Or add on to your stack ;)
  • CrazyCBettor Posts: 46Member
    9 diamonds, 3 kings, 3 jacks, 3 sevens, 3 eights = 21 cards. Can you guys explain how you are saying that calling is find when almost half the deck has the potential to kill our action? He has 2 pair here so often I think not getting it in is almost bordering on bad.
  • Raising this preflop is way better than limping, especially in position. Too many people don't consider the rake. If we limp and it's 5 ways the pot is $9 ($5+1, right?). Unless people are just going absolutely crazy in limped pots it's often very bad to limp along. Not to mention suited connectors don't often make the nuts. Folding is not bad at all. It looks nitty but if the effective stacks are <100bb we have an implied odds type of hand and are unable to just barrel off often.

    Turn is an easy ship. Villain likely has a strong hand here and will go with it. If he has KJ or J8, oh well, it's a cooler. Just hit your flush on the river, just in case.
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